Nobody is saying that the firing of the service Chiefs is not within the ranks of the President or the Senate, particularly from the South has not hailed Obasanjo action. But the biggest question is why appoint new ones without the Senate confirmation? There is a democratic process, isn't it?
Hail Biafra
Posts: 1685 | From: Minnesota USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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He did not need senate approval to fire them, and he does not need senate approval to appoint them. The issue of ethnic balancing is another issue. Personally, I do not care about the ethnicity of the service chiefs, as long as they are Nigerians, and qualified for the job.
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Well my boy, there is a diferrence between approval and confirmation. He does not need senate approval to appoint the chiefs . But sure need them for comfirmation. I hope I make myself clear on the difference?
If he does not need Senate confirmation of those chiefs, then we are talking about too much power for the President and open season for abuse. That is not democracy. The Chiefs definitely need senate confirmation because it deals with national security.
Hail Biafra
[ April 28, 2001: Message edited by: Waypoint1Biafra ]
Posts: 1685 | From: Minnesota USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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There is a difference between the service chiefs appointment and the appointment of the Chairman of joint chief of staffs. I don't know if we have the position of the chairman in Nigeria context, but here in the USA, it is only the Chairman of the joint chief of staffs that needs senate approval. The service chiefs are appointed at the president discretion.
Such appointments are based on merit and preference. The president has to be comfortable with such appointees. Realistically, there is no way we can divorce personal preference from such appointments.
[ April 28, 2001: Message edited by: bababoyz ]
___________________ Bababoyz, EzeGburuGburu of BiafraNigeriaWorld
No American president will fire all his service chiefs at once and keep the reason only to himself.Unless of course you believe the security of Nigeria is Obasanjo's personal business, but that action surely does not send any message of stability to the citzenry and the "numerous" foreign investors he has been attracting.
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Chiboy: Thanks for keeping it straight and letting bababoyz know the flaws in Obasanjo's inept regime. All of a sudden, three service chiefs were fired without expalanation; and we are made to believe Obasanjo is not playing games. How amazing? Time will tell.
Posts: 481 | From: Buffalo, New York USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Gentlemen surely the President has to be comfortable with those he wants as his service chief's, who wants someone he cannot trust in such a sensitive position?? http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/news2/nn819901.html I Hope you can read this link.
Posts: 66 | From: Irvine | Registered: Apr 2001
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Yes I agreed that such actions need consultation of the highest level,and am sure he must have done that before taking the action. At least the chairman of the senate committee on security confirms that.
I am not defending the administration, but this particular action and the pre-requisites in taking the action.
___________________ Bababoyz, EzeGburuGburu of BiafraNigeriaWorld
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Wale, Welcome on board. Your link read in part: "But Presidency sources told The Guardian On Sunday that the main target of the retirement was former Army Chief, Gen. Malu. And the moment the successor was finally chosen, the fate of the other service chiefs were sealed... Three reasons accounted for Malu's retirement. First, those within the government favourably disposed to former Chief of General Staff, Oladipo Diya, never forgave him for the trial, jailing and stripping of the rank of the Odogbolu-born former General. Second, his scathing criticism of the overbearing American military presence in Nigeria and comments at the Justice Chukwudifu Oputa panel made him to be pencilled down by friends of President Obasanjo (both within and outside Nigeria) as an enemy of the administration... According to the sources, these interest groups moved for his (Malu's) retirement. He was seen as too rigid and uncompromising. He was dubbed an enemy of government's determination and US help to solidify the democratic transition by strengthening civilian control and oversight of the military. He, also, by his utterances seems a stumbling block in government efforts to consolidate civilian control and to restructure the Armed Forces to meet the legitimate security needs of the nation. He had to go"
From the above "reasons" given, rather, belately for being behind Obasanjo's decision to fire the Service Chiefs, the question is did Obasanjo act onbehalf of the Nigerians who elected him, for his foreign and local "friends", especially the Americans, for Nigeria's security interests, or to clear the cost by surounding himself with people who will protect him when he rigs the 2001 election? If the "main taget" was Victor Malu and that there were some "interest groups", then who are these "interest groups"? Are the so-called 'interest groups' defending Nigeria's interest(s), by targeted Victor Malu because of his questioning of the "American over-bearing military presence in Nigeria"? How can the Americans whose plank in their foreign policy is to "protect American interests" suddenly be protecting Nigerian interests? The other "reason" given for the sack is that since Malu were to go for his "rigid and uncopromising" stance, then the other Service Chiefs must go; Question, why sack the other Service Chiefs for the "crime" commited by Malu? Where then is the work and reward and "merit" some of you have elluded? It was also said in the paper that Victor Malu's "comments" at the Oputa Panel was also responsible for his sack; Question, why should what one says at the Oputa Panel costs the person his or her job, and maybe his life? Is it not proper to ask whether the supposedly "truth and reconcilation" Oputal Panel not a tool of the Obasanjo regime to witch-hunt and punish his past and present perceived enemies? Didn't Obasanjo play ethnic politics by succumbing to his Yoruba constituency by targeting Malu for the role he (Malu) played during Oladipo Diya's (a fellow Yoruba) arrest and trial? From the perspective of a fair and unbiased observer, the "reasons" given for sacking ALL the Service Chiefs at same time has nothing to do with protecting Nigeria "interests"-- nothing to with "solidifing democracy" as the Americans would want us believe -- It also has nothing to with "merit", or with "restructuring the (Nigerian) Armed Forces", as posited by Obasanjo's point-men, on the contrary, it has everything to do with pleasing President Obasanjo's "friends" from within and outside Nigeria...The total sum of this incident and events since Obasanjo assumed office is that Nigeria under Obasanjo is practicing everything other than democracy, so, when you hear or see Obasanjo being praised and feted abroad by those whose interest(s) he is protecting, don't be surprised.
Ikpat, Why are you so disingenuous? When will you grow to be a man by saying what you mean and how you mean it without being so transparently hypocritic? Do you think you are in Nigeria where 'NEPA' has rendered most Nigerians unreachable? It's time you stop making mockery of yourself.
All, Obasanjo's exclusion of Igbos in his replacement of the unfairly sacked Service Chiefs is another testimony of what Pini Jason of the Nigerian Vanguard once warned the Igbos that "the guns went silent, but the war (Nigerian civil war) continues through another means"
quote:Three reasons accounted for Malu's retirement. First, those within the government favourably disposed to former Chief of General Staff, Oladipo Diya, never forgave him for the trial, jailing and stripping of the rank of the Odogbolu-born former General.
Probably, the most important reason since Obasanjo and Diya share quite a lot. Diya negotiated for the post of deputy to Abacha at the expense of Abiola. Obasanjo negotiated his release from prison and ultimately the presidency at the expense of Abiola. And, if you start punishing traitors of Diya calibre, where will it all end?
Of course, Malu should have been sacked for Odi massacre, if for nothing else. Interesting, what was Mr. Ikpatt's take on Odi?
quote: C. Ikpatt Senior Member Member # 463 Nigeriaworld forum posted April 28, 2001 02:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. What were those "...war-time (Nigerian Civil War) scientific and technological accomplishments.." that so fascinated the "world"? Building bombs from scrap metals? Even kids make more sophisticated ones today. 2. Why must it be the Governments sole responsibility to harness scientists and technologist?
3. Are there present laws that prevent good ole war scientists or anybody else from inventions or R&D? Lets not dwell in the past - Nigeria should be considering launching own satelites and developing top rate technologies than seek retroactive blessing of wartime obsolesence.
Those 3 Nigerians who are being honored sourced no help from the Nigeria government in order to secure achievements. That is the idea. Government roles should merely be regulatory and in the provision of good environment for the replication of likes of Drs. Nnaji et al.
This guy obviously needs to exorcise his soul. There is an eerie and diplomatic silence in response to this clearly deranged statement coming from c. Ikpatt from members of that forum. Except from 1 or 2 guys there.
posted
Thanks Nwa Aro for welcoming me, I look forward to having various debates on this forum.
To return to the points raised in the article it states that (1) He was sacked for being too rigid and uncompromising, please remember that as flawed as our democracy is its still in its infancy, thus positions taken by him which run counter to (elected government) policy may be seized by unscrupulous members of the armed forces to cause additional problems.
(2) As much as I do not like Foreigners being involved in sacred internal matters such as defense, the American and British may have something to offer our armed forces in dealing with their civilian counterparts.
I honestly believe that we must have a strong armed forces, but we must also have one that understands its role in civil society and it certainly is not to oppose an elected government, this role you leave to politicians in opposing parties.
This said though the President must be careful not to expose us unnecessarily to foreign interests.
posted
Wale: Why do we need strong armed forces instead of a strong economy? Strong armed forces for what? To fight defenceless civilians?
Posts: 481 | From: Buffalo, New York USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Paul, I limited my answer to the topic in question which had to do with the armed forces, not the economy.
Posts: 66 | From: Irvine | Registered: Apr 2001
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Admittedly, there is no economy to speak of. So, lets talk about the armed forces.
The overgrown boy scouts? In one of his very first public statements, Gen Malu called for a shoot-on-sight policy of soldiers who attempt to take over broadcast houses. Coming from the head of the army, the significance is that the army is equipped and professional just well enough to grab microphones. Look back twenty years and you will struggle to find anything more significant in military terms done by the army except to announce coups.
Another of the more visible roles of the Nigerian army was demonstrated at Odi. After the massacre of unarmed grandparents and their grand children, the officers who commanded the operation were decorated by the president. About the same time as Odi, there were also reports that border villages were under siege by the Camerounian and Niger nationals. Needless to say that no officers were promoted for repelling foreign enemies. Probably, because no officers bothered to engage any enemies!
The above examples just about summarise the usefulness of the Nigerian Army. I make no apologies for my contempt of the Nigerian Army. I wish anyone can give me a plausible reason why I should not.
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Wale: When Obasanjo appointed the service chiefs, he convinced Nigerians that they were the best to propel Nigeria to the forefront and at the same time to be trusted based on merits. Apparently, these officers were his cronies including Victor malu whom he understood quite well was part of Abacha's atrocities and dictatorships.
But he trusted Malu very well and made him Chief of Staff, Nigerian Army; negating the fact he was a potential to his own demise. Now, if Obasanjo is sincere and believed in strenghtening the nation's military to effect change, why would he, all of a sudden, fire all the service chiefs when they were indeed the men he knew, trusted and believed they were the right choices in his vow of "no sacred cows?"
Did Obasanjo not know that Malu was part of Abacha's reign of terror? Or regardless, despite the testimonies at the Chwkwudifu Oputa Human Rights Commission, of which the Yorubas, somehow, had faulted Malu on the implications of Oladipo Diya's demise, was Diya himself not part of the causes that destroyed the Yoruba nation?
And who is now questioning Diya for his role in twarting the "June 12" results. We all know the story and it is only time that would tell.
[ April 30, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Ibekwe ]
Posts: 481 | From: Buffalo, New York USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Paul I an trying my best to understand your point with regards to General Diya ,as far as I understand he is a disgraced officer who has gone home to lick his wounds, bare in mind he was a corporal short of being shot dead when Abacha died.
In due course i hope if Obasanjo is not going to prosecute him then this should be left to others in the future to do. he in essence is/was an enemy of Democracy.
However back to to the topic in 1999 President Obasanjo had General Malu as his Chief of Army staff in 2001 he was found wanting in his job performance and removed.
since there is no economy to talk about, so then what you are telling us is that it took Obasanjo two years to figure out that all his appointments from Ministry of Finance to defense to service chiefs were all mistakes. Now I have one answer for you; in 1988 then Vice President George Bush running for president boasted watch me & how I pick my veepee to tell you my Leadership skills. He proceeded to pick Dan Quayle I guess you know how that turned out.
Then Came President Clinton who from day one showed what kind of President he will make by appointing top notch people from treasury to defense. President Clinton proceeded to oversaw the highest peace time economic boom in American History. I am telling this to those who are still holding their breath for Obasanjo to do something right. Don't count on it other wise you will be holding your breath for a long long time.
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Paul / Biafra I hope you are not under the impression that I am an Obasanjo Supporter, if you are then please point out to me in any of the 4 post's that I have placed here or on the Nigerian Message board where I have inferred this.
My position on this matter is that President Obasanjo has found his Chief of Army staff wanting and has removed him no more no less.
Whatever the case may be in our Democracy Minister's / Armed forces heads serve at the will of the President
If in 2003 he decides to run for election again which he is entitled to do then good luck to him. I did not support him in 1999 nor will he have my support in 2003 .
posted
I don't know much about the military. All I know is that the name Malu has almost become synonymous with the Nigerian Army, military injustice, judicial murder, etc. I have never read a report of the Nigerian army defeating any foreign army. But, I know that the Nigerian army regularly murders Biafrans without provocation.
___________________ Tụfue nu nwa melụ alụ, olue echi amụta ọzọ Posts: 158 | Registered: Mar 2001
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The so-called Nigerian Army cannot even engage the Cameroons in the event there is a war. Nigerian Army is a bunch of hoodlums who would invade and kill innocent civilians. Shame!
Posts: 292 | Registered: Mar 2001
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“But in Kaduna, a senior presidency official who asked for anonymity adduced four reasons for the retirements of the former service chiefs.”
quote:The reasons are their alleged: * failure to fully submit to the authority of the civilian ministers of state in charge of the Army, Navy and Airforce; * refusal to support the American military personnel in the country; * failure to check some officers who incite the rank and file in the military against government policy, and * reckless spending which the government believes is the hang-over of past military administration.
These reasons given above suggest to me that it was Gen. Carl T. Vuono of MPRI, and NOT Obasanjo, that made the decision to fire those service chiefs. I support the firing of the service chiefs, but the North will not soon forget, and the perception that it was orchestrated by the Christian, anti-Sharia, Americans will no doubt further enrage the Hausa-Fulani/Middle-Belt collective. The blow-back is coming.
posted
Who cares. Let the Parasitic North throw punches and Biafra will only watch. However, I doubt if they will because they carry a heavy burden for the unbearable likeness of Nigeria. They are weakening day by day.
My biggest beef is the appointment of the new chiefs without due process. Nigerians should have been given the oppotunity to witness the process of hiring and screening on television net work and hear from these chiefs how they tend to serve the Nigerian people. Rather than in secrecy after all it is about national security. Is it?
Hail Biafra
Posts: 1685 | From: Minnesota USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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You are right, It will make my day to watch North hausa/fulani and the west yoruba go at it, and let we Biafran watch them decimate each other. Unfortunately the North will not do it because of their oil barons. and the yorubas are cowards. So I guess we have to make due for the manuvering between IBB and Obj.
On issues like this I just feel like saying "next".
Malu & friends will actaually be relieved that they made it out alive to enjoy their loot for the rest of their lives. The biggest looser was that mis-shapen goggled dwarf sani who convulsed to death while his bedromm was filled with stacks of dollars and harlots.
Malu & co may even become honourable senators tomorrow in that dishonourable country. We must part ways ASAP, as I hate to be associated with this mad bunch.
___________________ Awo's political idea was based on the assumption that any town beyond Owo was Igbo or Hausa. Awo was not socialised; he was not a good mixer because he did not have the opportunity, which the secondary school offered. ~TOS Benson, Baba Oba of Lagos