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He stated that the issue ought to be properly discussed and consultations made and a consensus reached before it could be feasible.

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Feel me? Ofu onye ana asi unu abia go. - Ednut Igbo-American .
www.airamericaradio.com visit her.

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By CHUKS UGWOKE,
DR. Chuba Okadigbo is an interviewer’s delight any day. He usually holds nothing back and fires the shots to strike his pre-determined targets. From his days as Senate President to the Kuta report and more recently to the Oyofo harmonization committee, he has been the man in the news.
He was face-to-face with CHUKS UGWOKE, our Editor at his Apapa residence, Saturday night but he would, this time, plead that "we talk on national issues than the senate and its leadership" because like he said, "Nigerians want to know more about how they can feed their families" than the altercations at the National Assembly. It’s vintage Chuba, analytical and exhaustive as ever. DR. Chuba Okadigbo
Read on. What is your impression of the on-going Justice Chukwudifu Oputa-led panel probing past human rights abuses in Nigeria?
Well, the Oputa panel was modeled after the Truth Commission of South Africa. And the whole essence of it all was that the truth be told at the commission. It’s there in the bible: tell the truth and the truth shall set you free. The Oputa panel sets out to resolve past injustices and devastating agonies so that people, high and low can pour out their hearts. I do not believe that the people who set it up were fully aware of the length and breadth of the outcome of the commission. For example, I took active interest in the panel when Major Al-Mustapha testified, when General (Ishaya) Bamaiyi testified, when Gen. Malu testified, when Gen. Diya testified.
The testimonies were revealing. They revealed the extent, the magnitude of the conspiracies within the Nigerian armed forces: some curious, some painful, some funny and some childish. How, for example, did it turn out for Gen. Diya who came to the panel well dressed only for Gen. Bamaiyi to turn the table and we started to see that, perhaps, there was, indeed, a coup attempt, when for months I had been part of the civil rights organisations that had been speaking against the background of the general thinking that the whole matter of an attempted coup was a complete fabrication. I’m sure that many people will today be asking the question whether indeed there was a coup attempt and by who?
But how far do you think this Oputa panel can go with all the claims by different persons and groups for compensation, reconciliation and reparation?
Yes, we can from that to the central theme. For many years since 1970, we Ndigbo have been crying marginalisation, marginalisation, marginalisation and people thought that we were just being funny, that we were just being silly, that we were just being agitative. In the book written by Chuks Iloegbunam, in the books written about what happened in the past like Blood in the Niger, or the book of Madiebo about the civil war or the statements made by Ojukwu in the Vanguard newspapers which the Nigerian propaganda machines had for years suppressed, finally and thanks to the Oputa panel, these truths are being told officially, openly.
The first dimension is Oputa himself. For many years, he had been at the Supreme Court delivering Aristotle-like verdicts but that’s basically for the lawyers and the immediately affected. But now, we’re seeing a former Supreme Court judge sitting down, writing and writing, talking and sweating and listening to chilling testimonies and sundry evidences in the country’s quest to heal its past. He has done it with candour, creativity. And what is more? Justice Oputa himself is from Oguta in Igboland.
Now, at Enugu, a presentation was made by Ohanaeze asking for a minimum of eight trillion Naira as compensation and as money used for the repairs of the damage caused by Nigeria. And now to answer your question directly, will the government pay? Maybe, maybe not. But it is interesting that the government has paid for that request to be made. The government has paid for the people to hear why we need that reparation to be made.
It’s not only here but our people in South-South, in Ogoni, Odi need to be compensated or there have to be reparations to them in the South-South for all the vast environmental and human degradations. That will be salutary. Once the truth is told, it may take months, it may take years like it took to set up the Oputa panel but certainly somewhere down the line, I’m confident that the matter of reparation, no matter the terminology will come to pass.
On my part as a senator, I’m prepared to start action on the floor of the senate on this matter. I’m conferring with senators from the North especially, and certainly also senators from the South-South for a specific and well-crafted Bill on this matter. I’m also conferring with some lawyers to find out what kind of thing can be done on the post-Oputa panel and the recommendations. For example, I’m thinking in the direction of a commission so that the repetition of the ecological and human degradations will be checked, and not just for the past but for the future. There are certain things happening in the country that requires direct, positive, continuous federal attention and action such as erosion, such as degradation.
The war veterans and I’m talking of the wounded ex-Biafran soldiers, came to the Oputa panel on wheelchairs and they were understandably bitter that they have been abandoned. Why is this so and what should be done?
Well, I’ve known about this all along. Don’t forget that with gratitude forever to President Shehu Shagari, there’s compassion occasioned by the granting of pardon to my brother, Emeka Ojukwu and subsequently his return to Nigeria. I had a very close encounter with the gentlemen on wheelchair around Oji River. As I was going down to Nnewi in a convoy with Emeka Ojukwu for the first time since the war ended, these men on wheelchair rolled out and almost ran into the traffic. I came out of the car and wept because these were men who sacrificed everything they had and who had come out on this day to welcome their leader, Ojukwu. Ojukwu came down and spoke with them.
You see, it’s very painful that these things should be happening to them. In our own little private ways, we’ve been doing whatever we can for them but again, that won’t be sufficient. I’m going round to the South-East governors for a start to see something they can commence doing themselves for these brothers of ours. We want to see how we can go with their deliberate rehabilitation and separation of the disabled soldiers from the lepers at the Oji River camp. Our Igbo brothers and sisters overseas can also help through foundations out there even if by way of sending more wheelchairs down because some of them really share wheelchairs.
Anytime I’m travelling from Onitsha or from Ogbunike to Enugu, I usually stop. Sometimes, I give them newspapers. But the most important thing is that I stop and chat with them because they are knowledgeable and deeply interested in political developments and politically astute. I know that some other people use to do that. I remember that one day I was chatting with them when Chief Arthur Eze pulled up and did something substantial and I’ve seen some other people do the same. Now, we should move away from this personal to collective interventions. I’ve made up my mind to do something and I believe that every Igbo man feels the same way.
The talk of Igbo presidency was high initially. Now, it is fading but beyond this, there are many Igbo sons involved with emerging political associations with different agenda. What do you make of these inconsistencies?
When I addressed Ohanaeze at Enugu during the Igbo summit, the great meeting of Igbo within and in diaspora, I told them: syndicate and synchronise. The other part was; don’t cry, scream. Now, we begin from the latter. The Igbos have started screaming for the Igbo presidency. They are not just shouting, they are not just asking, they are not just demanding, crying for it. They should scream more. The tempo should never go down. Don’t murmur, don’t grumble. Stop that, it’s over; stop complaining but scream. Wherever they may be, let Ndigbo scream.
The other one is syndicate and synchronise and it’s beginning to take place. The other day, there was a meeting of the Confederation of Igbo Students at Ebonyi State University. They invited me but there was time constraint and I sent my apologies. The young men and ladies are in touch with me. So, there should be more of such fora by the Igbos who are traders, the Igbos who are members of the National Assembly, the Igbos who are in different fields. We are doing that now but we must do it more consistently. Until sometime in May, I’m the chairman of the governors and the legislators of the South-East. We met twice in Owerri, many thanks to the initiative of Governor Achike Udenwa, we decided at the last meeting that it should rotate alphabetically but since the Abia State governor was not present at that time, it was shifted to Anambra. From there, we would head to Umuahia, then to Ebonyi and Enugu. Even the gentlemen from the media from our place should also syndicate and synchronise. The market unions- Ojuelegba, Nnamdi Azikiwe, Alaba International, Idumota, Oshodi, Onitsha, Ariaria, Enugu and all over should syndicate and synchronise.
I’ll tell you where I got this idea of market unions. When Chief Adeniran Ogunsanya died, there were some uncomplimentary remarks made for the single fact that he had throughout his lifetime associated with the Igbos. So, I went to Ebitu Ukiwe, then we talked to Okigbo, M.T. Mbu, Admirals Madueke and Ndubuisi Kanu, we also got Ezeife, Jerry Okwuonu and my good friend, Joe Irukwu. We moved very fast until it came to the time when Ukiwe, myself, Ezeife and Jerry Okwuonu sent messages to the markets in Lagos. We visited them and spoke to them on the project of giving Chief Ogunsanya a befitting burial like we do to distinguished Igbo chiefs. They agreed. We went to all the markets where we have our children buying and selling to tell them that the Igbos are committed to this cause.
Chief Ogunsanya’s interment was a burial that would be the envy of any Yoruba man. And oh my God, you would love to be an Igbo man on that day. When we moved into Ikorodu, all the roads and available spaces in the town were saturated with choice cars. We had our canopies everywhere and we asked the people to show us where we would stay. They showed us a place and in a twinkle, we turned it into a carnival. We have everything we needed- water, food, drink, music. From all over, our people came in buses, cars. Di-anyi, odi egwu (ol’boy, it was wonderful). We simply synchronised and syndicated. The war dancers from Abiriba led our procession. We crowned Chief Ogunsanya an Igbo chief post-humously through his son and his daughter, Aderenle also witnessed. The Igbos shut their shops in the markets in Lagos on this day.
I’m happy to tell you that by the time we finished on that day, Chief T.O.S. Benson, a long-standing friend of the Ndigbo (and don’t forget that he married an Igbo lady who has a charming daughter for him) came to us and said that when he’s gone, he would like the Igbos to bury him or accord him the kind of respects we accorded Chief Adeniran Ogunsanya. We assured him that since nobody knows when he would die, should anything happen, Ndigbo would always remember that he’s been a long time friend.
And during my birthday in Abuja, there was a day that all the markets were closed. There were three hundred arrests of Okada (commercial) motorcyclists who were showing solidarity for me. And they made a point to the National Assembly and to President Olusegun Obasanjo that the Igbos do care for the fate of their brother, never mind what some elites might be doing. Without my knowledge and involvement, the Igbo people syndicated. Many thanks to Chief Mark Okoye who is the president of Igbo community in Abuja who helped to mobilise them.
There were questions- why are you on the streets? And the Igbos said: "we don’t like what you’re doing to our son and brother, Chuba Okadigbo. For that action, I will forever be committed to any Igbo cause and pursuit as I’ve always been. Now, I think that if we can syndicate and synchronise our action, our students, traders, lawyers, doctors, journalists, car dealers and all other professionals, we shall triumph. That’s what we shall do for this Igbo presidency. I’m not for an Igbo president, I’m for the president of Nigeria who is from Igboland. In doing that, we must also syndicate and synchronise with our brothers and sisters from South-South, from the North and South-West so that they can appreciate our viewpoint. We shall work it out. Why shouldn’t Igbo have it? Is it the exclusive preserve of any particular geo-political zone or zones? The Hausa-Fulanis have had it, the Middle Belt had produced three past Heads of State in Gowon, Babangida and Abdulsalami. The Yorubas had it before, they have it now. Now, what’s the brouhaha about an Igbo president? We are going to have a shot at that very wonderful job (presidency) and there’s no going back on this.
It was Vanguard that published my interview in 1990 when I said that the Nigerian problem is the Igbo problem and conversely, the Igbo problem is the Nigerian problem. Perhaps, the offence we have is that we are Nigerians. But when we said that we did not want to be Nigerians, they said you must be. Okay, we say today that we’re Nigerians and they say ‘no, you’re Igbo men.’ I did say that Alhaji Shehu Shagari as the president of Nigeria ended the war politically when he granted Ojukwu and others pardon while Gowon ended the war he started militarily. It was in this house that I wrote the memorandum for the manner of asking for the creation of states, basing it on the need for equity and parity. Chief R.B.K. Okafor sat here (pointing to a seat), S.G. Ikoku sat on the other seat.
The argument was that up there in the North, the Hausa-Fulani had six states, the Minorities had six states, here in the West, they had five states, the minorities in the South had four states and we, the Igbos, had two. It was a question of a fundamentally and objectively determinable disparity in a sociological arrangement that was the structure of Nigeria.
And Gen. Babangida (I will always praise him for that) at a time that people were afraid to mention the matter because the government had ruled that the issue of state creation was a closed one, I issued the argument that was signed by six of us- R.B.K. Okafor, myself, S.G. Ikoku, C.C. Onoh, Mbakwe, Okigbo. We signed it in the face of danger. Then I was in my bedroom and the telephone rang. I picked it up and said who’s there? The caller replied: "Ibrahim". I said which one? He answered "Babangida". And I exclaimed, "the President? What have I done again that you want to get me? I beg you-o!"
And he said. "Chuba, I’ve read your memorandum and your arguments are perfectly correct." It gave us the impetus to continue with the agitation. We took the opportunity to go public and we began to take advert insertions and air time in the media and I want to use this opportunity to thank Alhaji Abdulaziz Ude who gave the money with which we took the adverts in various newspapers. And when we were about taking advert insertions in the Washinton Post, Babangida called me and said; "don’t go too far. It will seem as if we’re quarrelling in Nigeria. I’ll do it." And he gave us two states. It became four, remaining one to make us tie with the West. When Abacha came, he gave us one and today, we have five states. So, what we need now is Anioma State for Asaba up to Agbor and Ndokwa area. That will give the due parity as to what we have in Nigeria today.
So, while Gowon ended the civil war militarily, Shagari ended it politically by bringing in elements of reconciliation by the return of Ojukwu and other people such as Col. Nwobosi and the rest of them and by appointing Ndigbo into key federal positions. Babangida ended the war structurally. That bold step to end the war structurally was concluded in part by Abacha. So, it is now for Obasanjo to complete that enterprise in the manner I’ve enumerated by assuring that with the assistance of the National Assembly and in line with the constitution, there is parity in the balance of the Nigerian federation. From the pogrom of the civil war to marginalisation, the Igbos deserve a fair and more equitable treatment.
But was the civil war not about resource control?
No. My brother, Ikemba had said it appropriately. Osondu! (Running for dear life). In 1989, I made a statement that when the Igbos are in trouble, they take the bus with the name Osondu.At the back of the bus, it is written, ‘we shall return.’ When things are right and normal, they use Ekene Dili Chukwu (thanks be to God), thank God we’re going home. They use such luxury buses. When you’re running, you’re not going on such luxuries. It’s no luxury to run away. You abandon all your property as Nigeria came to call it to run for dear life. You run! You don’t carry money. You carry your child, your wife, relation, workers and friends to run for dear lives. What is resource control about running to be alive. It’s after you’ve had your breakfast, lunch and dinner that you can start talking abour resource control.
So, for anybody to say that the civil war was all about resource control, is wicked, it’s criminal, absurd, preposterous, absolute balderdash and provocative in all dimensions. When those saying so came with fighter jets, were they bombing human beings or resources?
Political associations are springing up everywhere. What is your view about this trend and their clamour for registration?
Personally, I’ve always endorsed the idea of a two-party system because it is a
veritable instrument of national integration. But I do not mean a two-party state by force. I mean by evolution and by the wish of the people. As it is the case with the United States of America, you have the Democrats and the Republicans. In England, you have the Conservative Party and the Labour Party in the main. But there are other political parties. By evolution and by the wish of the people, two parties come out at the top.
In Nigeria, it’s ideal to have a two-party system but there should be the possibilities for plurality of parties and let the people decide. You see, parties are normally founded around issues and of course, it will be funny to say that all the burning issues in Nigeria should be narrowed down to three (laughs). As a matter of fact, the three political parties are joined by the same tendencies in their manifestations and idiosyncracies. So, we would not want one dimensional manifestation and perception of the body polity. It does not represent the varied positions and needs of the various interests.
Ours is a plural society and must have the plurality of political parties so that it is for the people to decide who should be given the mandate to rule as is the case with the PDP. It was overwhelming and had never happened in the history of this country. Ironically, it is from this same party that people are running away to form these political associations. We must look inwards.
Yes, I was going to ask why we have these intra-party squabbles in PDP and in the other parties...
I’m very sad. I am very very sad and I’d said so many times because there was no contract with the PDP for the escalation of poverty. There was a contract for the redistribution of wealth of the nation. There was a social contract between the PDP and the populace for a positive change. That was what they believed, that’s what they voted for. It’s painful to me that oftentimes when new groups emerge, they are leaving from the PDP. When they mobilise for new members, they are mobilising PDP people.
When the issue of resource control is raised to the maximum, beginning from the South-South, all the six states in that geo-political zone are controlled by the PDP. And when they are joined by their brethren of the South-East, all the five states are PDP. The state assemblies and council chairmen are clearly PDP. The eleven had been joined by their brothers from the South-West which is okay by me but it’s a thing of sorrow that eleven of them are PDP, the National Assembly is dominated by the party and we continue to have these troubles. Anytime the President attacks the National Assembly, he’s attacking the PDP, or the council chairmen, or the Speaker or the Senate President.
Just today, I went to a shop with my wife to buy a radio-cassette with which I will embark on a nationwide tour. The price was so much that I exclaimed and the sales boy told me, "oga, na una do am." And I said to him, "how, I’m not a minister or a President" and he said, "no be una be PDP." I came back very said. It’s not funny and when people say it’s not our fault, then I ask, whose fault, Chuba’s own? That’s why I want to go round and explain myself that I didn’t cause their difficulties and that’s why I’m very happy to see you and to use you (general laughter) to tell them that I’m not part of it. But we have to ask questions to find out what happened to the pieces of meat that we collectively put on fire. We have to know what happened to the meat while some of us were asleep.
What do you say to the widespread belief that IBB has an eye on the 2003 presidency?
My position is very simple; that he wasn’t the only one that stepped aside. We all stepped aside including Obasanjo. It’s a matter of whether you want to talk about the continuation of his exit or his removal. He stepped aside once like Babangida did and like I also did. I stepped aside from my seat as Senate President to allow for the report of the Kuta panel. And no sooner than I sit down than senator (Wahab) Dosunmu began moving the motion for what he called impeachment. I was the one who conducted the election (of the probe panel) but would not sit over my own case because of its unconstitutionality. So, I stepped aside so that we could have sanity, never mind what happened thereafter. In effect, what I’m saying is that IBB may have stepped aside like most of us did at one time or the other.
Right now, what Nigerians are after is the big pot. What have happened to their big pot? Is it the Kuta report that is the cause of the hard times we all face in the country today? Is it why a mudu of garri goes for ninety naira instead of twenty naira? Is it Kuta’s report or Chuba Okadigbo that is making the country to import beans from Burkina Faso? Beans! Beans! Okadigbo, Okadigbo, am I the problem of Nigeria? Is it Okadigbo that made the cost of chicken to go up? (laughs) Is it Okadigbo that raised school fees? Or have you ever seen where harmonisation is demolition? (general laughter). I think we should talk a lot more on fuel scarcity, food scarcity, beans importation, security, murder, arson, accident. That’s what will benefit our people and I know that my colleagues are geared in this direction because we’re all concerned about the plight of those rural dwellers who voted for us. Your loyalist, Senator Khairat Gwadabe was recently dropped as the senate committee chairman on FCT...
I’ve said that I would not want to go into any discussion bordering on the senate or its leadership for obvious reason. But I would only say that Senator Khairat Gwadabe is not so loyal to me as she is to the senate and the country. She is loyal to democracy. She is loyal to equity, justice and fairness. If by chance I happen to represent or incarnate those traits and in the course of that action she works with me or we work together along with others, that should not be any reason for her incarceration or suppression.
Clearly, it is most unfortunate, her removal was on a purported charge to deliver a report on a chaotic traffic situation somewhere within the FCT. I suppose that traffic is police matter but anyway, since the senate had so deemed it appropriate to act without even giving her a reminder, I do not have a ny doubt that the distinguished senator will continue to contribute meaningfully to issues that will better the lots of Nigerians, and FCT in particular because in any case, she is the one representing them. And she has continued to visit different parts of the FCT even after the decision as part of her responsibilities to those who voted for her. In any case, I doubt whether any senator will love the FCT more than her. Let us leave this matter at that.
Your home state, Anambra has been embroiled in several controversies revolving around Bakassi Boys. What is the real issue and what are you, the heavyweights doing?
I’ll be going there (Anambra) very soon. I’m very worried about what is happening in Anambra. I’m going to look at the issues more passionately and see how we can find a way to resolve the problem. So, I would plead that you excuse me until I talk with all the conflicting forces minus the criminals that I cannot talk to. You see, Onitsha is my constituency because I’m the senator representing Anambra North senatorial district which comprises Onitsha North and Onitsha South, Anambra West and East, Oyi, Ayamelun and Ogbaru local government areas. So, I can’t shy away from what is happening in the place right now. I cannot play with it.
I had tried to offer advice and mediate in one way or the other. But that’s not all. I’ll get actively involved in this matter of trying to resolve the trouble about Bakassi Boys and when I do that, I will surely come back to you. But generally, what I find out more intriguing is that you have Bakassi in Onitsha and Aba while you have OPC in Lagos. These are the three biggest commercial cities in Nigeria where you will find the largest amounts always in circulation. That’s what the criminals are looking for. They don’t steal government treasury bills, cheques. They steal cash.
The President of Nigeria, few days ago, was speaking with Governor Tinubu and the Inspector-General of Police on the rising crime rate in Lagos State and how to combat it. I wish such attention was given to Anambra. I salute what happened in Lagos and I call for its extension to Anambra and consequently to Abia. For my governor, Dr. Mbadinuju, it’s a very difficult situation. Security mattered to most people in Anambra State and he set out to give the voters just that.
And to the parties in the conflict, I urge them to remember the Roman dictum: if you seek war, prepare for peace. Conversely, if you seek peace, prepare for war. I do not intend to tell our people from Anambra State where I come from to disarm themselves in order to hand over their security to the police who are ill-equipped, poorly-paid and poorly-motivated to take maximum risks. The issue of Bakassi Boys is one that we must all handle with caution. We who are involved must get into ways of resolving the issue.
I cannot join those who say that Bakassi should be disbanded because I cannot provide them any alternative. I cannot join those who say that Bakassi is an evil force because I have also seen the good they had done. Nor can I say that Bakassi is a perfect organisation because there is no such thing in the universe. The Nigerian police is not perfect. The Nigerian army is not perfect, the Nigerian government is not. Why do they expect the Bakassi to be perfect? The Bakassi is not made up of angels, they are made up of human beings. If it’s a matter for angelic action, we would have brought Pope John Paul II.
My final word is that we should tread softly, cautiously. When I go home, I’ll explore the possibilities for reconciliation, for appreciation of the true situation.

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Awo's political idea was based on the assumption that any town beyond Owo was Igbo or Hausa. Awo was not socialised; he was not a good mixer because he did not have the opportunity, which the secondary school offered. ~TOS Benson, Baba Oba of Lagos

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[ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: chiboy ]

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[ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: Ednut ]

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Feel me? Ofu onye ana asi unu abia go. - Ednut Igbo-American .
www.airamericaradio.com visit her.

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As for Igbos or non Igbos in Edo state, we have stated it time without number that Biafra Actualization membership is voluntary. None is forced to join. We know that the Biafra Nation we are pursuing is just and uncompromisable. Biafra is made up of Igbos and non Igbos who have seen the light of realization. Therefore, the true Biafrans have chosen to concentrate their energy into questing for the independence and good of Biafra. Saboteurs are the least of our concerns right now.

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Forward ever, backward never!

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You have defended Jim blindly on many occassions here and you have stated that the man is from your town or is it state.That is not a good enough reason to defend him and since no true Igbo recognizes Nigeria's artificial state creation I am asking you to remove any sentiments from your mind when analyzing Jim's current behaviour.

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We are not discoursing Jim here, however since you keep bringing his name up, and calling him a member of my ethnic group, (whatever that means)my town man, etc. I have to state again that I am from Oji River and I have no idea where Jim is from. I was defending his accomplishments as the Governor of Anambra State and as the Chairman of Enugu Rangers. You can even go further to say that the Super Eages bacame a world class and won the Olympics while Jim Nwobodo was the Minister of sports. The man is a leader and maybe the only true Igboman that can win enough Northern votes to capture the presidency come 2003.

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Feel me? Ofu onye ana asi unu abia go. - Ednut Igbo-American .
www.airamericaradio.com visit her.