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I have been delegated to be the cybercop, to make sure no intruder interferes with the fascinating debates between CSE and Patrick regarding the Osu Caste System. And, I have been alerted the Osu thing is more than we could ever imagine.
But I have a problem in that regard. When CSE who is presumably not Osu, and an outcast; and as we well know the "Osu Crap" is of bigotry anf ignorance, and when Patrick insists that the Osus would be better off working alongside the legitimates in establishing a profound Igbo nation, why would the so-called "Osus" be playing the divisional ethnic card to show how much they belong?
There is no question, we cannot remove the Osu stuff within our memory. But we could do better understanding the fact that it is irrelevant, especially if we realize the consequences, which indeed is ominous, if we don't tackle this discriminatory problem appropriately and adequately.
Our forefathers have made their mistakes based on their ignorance. Do we have to make the same mistakes, too?
quote:Besides, precisely what is it that extends to osu heirs these days. Is it the punishment or the stigma? Is it too much to insist that the beneficiary of a crime carry the stigma that goes with the crime? Patrick
Precisely, what crime makes one an Osu? Do not forget that the title of this debate is Can Osu Rule Igbo Land? If you answer ‘NO’, then you are denying a people their fundamental right for no just reason. Is that just a stigma? And for what crime, anyway?
quote:There is no question, we cannot remove the Osu stuff within our memory. But we could do better understanding the fact that it is irrelevant, especially if we realize the consequences, which indeed is ominous, if we don't tackle this discriminatory problem appropriately and adequately. Ifeanyi Chukwukere Obigbo
I agree. If the British ever wish to forget colonialism, I am sure we’ll remind them. Around every election in Britain, many articles spring up to remind the British that women were once denied the vote. Some Americans look back in shame how they hung blacks who dared to defy America’s apartheid system. The Osu system will live in our memories forever. Out task is to make it irrelevant and consign it firmly in the past.
quote:And, I have been alerted the Osu thing is more than we could ever imagine. Ifeanyi Chukwukere Obigbo
You are not alone. The more I learn about this system, the more ashamed I become. Do you imagine that even the staunchest supporters of this system aren’t even sure what crimes made one an Osu? Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart brought the Osu phenomenon to the awareness of many around the word. There, an Osu was a slave sacrificed to a deity. They needn’t have committed any more offences other than that they were slaves. The reason for their dedication to deities were mainly frivolous, e.g. a community experiencing a famine might believe that sacrificing a slave was the best way to appease the gods. This is what Katharine Slattery wrote of the Osu system:
quote:One of the most important distinctions the Igbo make in their status system is that between Diala and non-Diala. The Diala is a freeborn, a full citizen, whose status at birth is symbolized by the burial of his umbilical cord, preferably at the foot of an oil palm tree. A Diala is free to attempt to gain a title, the only barrier to social climbing being the membership fees that these institutions demand. In contrast, the Ohu was a slave who had very few rights. However, these slaves were more often as not absorbed into the lineage of the master they served, becoming their companions and often marrying their daughters. An Osu was a cult-slave; they were a people hated and despised , and to refer to a Diala or an Ohu as an Osu was the gravest of insults. The Osu system of slavery originated from the Owerri-Okigwi region. The Diala belief is that the Osu are descended from a people who, at the recommendation of a diviner, were dedicated to a deity, in order that they may become his servitor. A particular village, lineage or individual that had been experiencing illness or misfortune would “dedicate” this slave to the deity, in the belief that the slave would then carry out the sins of the dedicator. The Osu were feared and hated because they reminded the Diala of their guilt. Unlike slaves, they could not be absorbed into their master’s lineage; on the other hand, they were protected by their deity from being sold or killed. The cult-slave status of the Osu was legally abolished by the Eastern Nigerian Government in 1956.
I do not in any way imply that this is the beginning and the end of what the Osu system is all about. But its time we, through debates, hammer out what the Osu system is all about. My take is that it is a system based on ignorance. There are many such practices which we are only beginning to see as such. There is every sign that Igbos are prepared to move on, even the local market women of Neke!Posts: 621 | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Champion has the terrible habit of failing to maintain its links. Therefore, I have decided to copy that important article that you referred to and post it here for future reference. I am enjoying your debate with Patrick. If we must discuss this osu matter, it should be done the way the two of you are doing it.
quote:Women defy deities, recover skulls from Shrine
It was a day of reckoning in the serene community of Neke, Isi-Uzo local government area of Enugu State for idol - worshippers and deities when some women recently ramshackle the forest and dedicated spots, destroying shrines and recovering many human skulls in the process. JOSEPH AGBO reports.
It was the British Social Contract theorist, Thomas Hobbes, that wrote about a "State of Nature" that preceded the emergence of civil society. He painted a gory picture of the life of man stating that the life is "solitary, nasty, brutish and short." Without sounding alarmist there is a sense in which life in Neke, Isi-Uzo Local Government Area of Enugu State, has been "nasty and brutish".
For centuries (about 400 years), the inhabitants of this predominantly agricultural town was under the sway of two demonic deities: "Odo and Ezugu." The activities connected with these deities are enough to shock the uninitiated. For in this 21st century, the age of computer and information technology, it is almost impossible to imagine how such activities can take place, unhindered. For example, Odo Neke is the most-dreaded deity in the entire Nsukka zone (some even say in the whole Enugu State). The initiates are told never to divulge its secret, for that attracts instant death. Everything is done in secrecy.
The Odo masquerade is prepared with the yellowish inner part of palm fronds. And if any woman ever sees the Odo devotees cutting these palm fronds so as to use it to prepare the Odo, the men would kill her tie the yellow leave, (popularly called Omu in Igbo language) around her and announce to everyone that "Odo has killed her." The Odo masquerade is celebrated every two years, and during this period, no woman can come out in the night without a man accompanying her. There is also a celebration of the Odo feast called mgbamike during which for three days, no woman, no child, no stranger can venture into the streets; go to market, to school, or social gathering. The entire town comes under the strangle hold of the Odo worshippers.
During the Odo year, you cannot play music loud in your house nor switch on your security lights because Odo does not like light. The most absurd of these occurrences is that should a woman kill a scorpion and her husband wants to punish her, all he needs to do is to go and tell some of the Odo devotees. In the night, one of the Odos will come to the woman痴 compound to task her to bring a wrapper, a fowl and other things for the "burial" of the scorpion, which Odo sees as "his son". And since the woman believes that Odo is a spirit and not man, she complies with apologies and piety.
But if Odo kills human beings to protect its iniquitous mystery, then "Ezugu" both in conception and worship is a blood-sucking deity. It has been alleged that there are thousands of human skulls at the temple of "Ezugu". And for many males in Neke, to bring a human skull to Ezugu" shrine is a test of manhood. And you cannot go and escavate the skull of someone who died naturally. It has to be the skull of someone you killed yourself. In the distant past, people paraded skulls of enemies that were killed during ancient inter-tribal wars. But in the past few decades, wicked men have taken pleasure in killing people in cold blood.
There is a special dance which idolators dance when any "Ezugu" feast is being celebrated. And if one wants to know the latest murders, all you need is to go there and see those that are involved in the dance. The most agonizing part is that no Neke person can be killed and his skull taken to "Ezugu". It has to be the skull of a stranger, someone from another town hence over the years, the surrounding towns dreaded the town of Neke.
As Christianity came to Neke and the Pentecostal spirit was poured out, many people, led by the Christians, began to resist the many taboos associated with Odo and Ezubu.The most-painful was that those who "went to church" go back and join in the perpetration of this wickedness, all in the name of "culture".
Unfortunately, when those who are involved in this wickedness became a small part of the members of the town, they still held everyone hostage by intimidation, manipulation and fear.
In Oct, 2000, some evangelists led by Mike Nnamani and Robinson Agbo travelled all the way to Neke to tell those who are hell-bent on continuing the reign of wickedness in the town that God痴 anger was enkindled, and he has sent them to warn the town to stop killing innocent people.
They called a meeting at the town痴 square on the 17th Oct, 2000, to give the town the message. But according to Evang. Mike, "many of those that gathered that day were too shocked; for they never thought anyone can publicly speak against the dreaded odo and Ezugu deities."
In February, 2001 during Odo Ujeme痴 festival called Mgbamike, a letter signed by Mr. Philip Agbo Ogbodo was circulated warning everyone, especially strangers, that February 14-16, 2001 has been dedicated. But in swift reaction, a letter from the office of the chairman of Isi-Uzo L.G.A. directed the police to ensure that life and property in Neke is protected, because no such permission has been granted in Neke.
But that notwithstanding, it was a three days which no one in Neke town would like to remember. For life came to a halt ・no market, no school, even church activities were impossible.
It was, therefore, against this background that the leadership of the Church in Neke, led by Rev. Christian C. Eze of the St. Stephen痴 Anglican Church, Rev. Fr. Chibundu A. Omeje of St. Patrick痴 Catholic Church and Rev. J.E. Igwe of the Assemblies of God Church, all in Neke, decided to meet the custodian of the Odo deity.
This was because activities marking the end of the Odo year would start on 19th May, 2001; and during that day, no woman, no child, no stranger, no uninitiated is allowed to come out from 7am till 5pm. So the Church leaders went to the Odo custodians to request that Odo痴 return should be celebrated at night because there was an interdenominational crusade coming up.
When the Odo devotees rejected the option of "night return", the Churches embarked on a one-week prayer and fasting for their crusade fixed for 26th May, 2001. The Odo people also fixed the Odo return that day and since no one is expected to venture into the streets, the question was: will the crusade hold? Yes, it did.
On the 26th May, 2001, the unimaginable happened in Neke. Despite the heavy rain that lasted for close to 8 hours (the first of its kind in Neke), the Christian and other people poured into the streets singing and praising God. In the process, people entered into the temple of "Ezugu" and found so many human skulls there.
This discovery angered the people, who later invaded the Ezugu temple and tore it down removing many more skulls. They also invaded the many shrines temples and alters of many other idols that have kept the people of Neke in bondage. The anger of God was believed to have come down on that day, for it was alleged that God prepared "ordinary girls" to go to the evil forest and bring out the Odo masquerade, a forest where no women had ever dared to enter.
In fact, according to Mrs. Anastasia Nnamchi, "what happened in Neke was hard to believe by even other surrounding towns since Odo Neke is held in awe by everyone. But women in this town are the greatest beneficiaries. God has given us our own Beijing Conference on a platter of gold."
The mob torched the items - charms, talisman, utensils used for making the poisonous charms etc that were removed from these temples, while the skulls were later handed over to the Enugu State police command. And in a delayed reaction the police arrested about 30 people in the town and detained them at the state CID in Enugu. However, the detainees allegedly denied any knowledge of the skulls and claimed that they were put there by their great grand fathers and that they were skulls of those killed during ancient wars between Neke and other towns.
But in a reaction Rev. Fr. Omeje asked: "how can they say that the skulls were those of olden times, when fresh skulls were discovered in the white, ark like sack that the 2nd in command always comes behind the Chief Priest of Ezugu anytime that he is passing through the town?" He wondered why the police should let them go but said despite that, "no" wicked man who fails to repent will ever go unpunished."
One of the Odo devotees denied that human beings are sacrificed to the Odo. But when asked how human skulls were discovered in the Odo Okurenkpune ark, he said, "I don稚 know about that."
The Idol-worshippers thought that the release of the arrested devotees of Odo and Ezugu by the police in Enugu was interpreted as a victory for them. So they came back and began to plan how the dieties would be revived.
Most of the other Odo devotees gave up and many became Christians. But the Umu-egbeneke clan, the custodians of the Odo called Okurenkpume refused to give up the practice. The people boasted that they would rather die than see the end of their nefarious activities. They claimed that the police in Enugu had told them that they had a right to freedom of worship but according to Barrister D.C. Ugwueze, a Neke indigene "any freedom of worship that not only denies another person his freedom of movement and association but equally involves human sacrifice is not only barbaric, but at variance with the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria."
And so, it continued until. Nov 7, 2001 when a group of bold women got wind of the fact that the Ezugu would be revived. By now, a mob had gathered and knowing fully well that the same thing would soon happen at the Okurenkpume temple, the mob moved there and discovered yet another fresh decaying human head! In anger, they pulled down the house where the temple was and got hold of the people. The amazing thing was that majority of the mob that carried out the operation of. Nov 7th, 2001 were women. And as one of them who spoke on condition of anonymity said, "why not women, after all; we are the ones that suffer most under this inhuman practice. We would rather die fighting."
They held those arrested until the police from a nearby police station in Ikem, the Isi-Uzo local government headquarters, came and took them away after making more arrests. Speaking to this reporter at the police station in Ikem, Sgt Emma Iko, one of the officers that went to Neke to carry the two decaying human heads, confirmed the incident and added in 叢igin・English, "nna, na wa o, this world sef; dat day the thing jus dey smell, I no fit chop dat day."
Evang. Nnamani lamented that despite the fact that he and his team spent two weeks, in Neke in August, warning this people that God said they would pay with their blood if they ever kill anyone again, they still went ahead. He called on the Inspector General of Police, Tafa Balogun, to step into the matter in Neke before it becomes a calamity adding that the skulls at Ezugu are still there and should be escavated and those thousands of human beings given a befitting burial.
[ April 07, 2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Ezeka Onu ]
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posted
Osu is like racism, slavery and other forms of bigotry. But as in racism, slavery and other forms of bigotry, the osus must come forth and demand their rights to be part of society rather than hiding the facts.
The blacks did not hide the fact that slavery occured. The Jews fought against anti-semitism. Other ethnic minorities fought against discrimination and demanded equal rights. But ironically, the osus are not doing that.
___________________ Nwa Amucha Posts: 369 | From: Little Rock, Arkansas | Registered: May 2001
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quote:Precisely, what crime makes one an Osu? Do not forget that the title of this debate is Can Osu Rule Igbo Land? If you answer ‘NO’, then you are denying a people their fundamental right for no just reason. Is that just a stigma? And for what crime, anyway? –-CSE
CSE:
You have reminded us that this debate is ”Can Osu Rule Igbo Land?” That was part of your effort to show that the modern osu caste system is more than just a stigma and actually constitutes punishment on the descendants of the original Osu. But, if you read IG Nwafor a little closely, you will see that a big part of his complaint is that many in that nefarious group that is today known as “Igbo Leaders” are of the Osu stock.
Others have complained that the Osu are over-represented in Abuja. It has also been repeatedly stated and implied that the Obasanjos and Babangidas make a practice of seeking out Osu for ministerial appointments. Elsewhere in this thread, IG Nwafor stated: If the osu cast are joining Igbo enemies to destabilize Igbo land, then they are not helping their cause.” So, perhaps the question should be "Is Osu Ruling Igboland Well?" and not "Can Osu Rule Igboland?"
Some people point out that the government of the former Eastern Region, which was itself abolished abolished the Osu system. But, when another governor in Imo State wanted to enforce that ban, Okigwe and Owere Chiefs got together and recommended some highly qualified Osu bachelors as suitors for his marriage-age daughters. What did the liberal governor do? He went and started clearing his throat and adjusting his collar.
The following questions are for those of you that have mail-order brides/husbands from Igboland, Biafra.
1) What do you think was the first thing that your parents did before they gave the go ahead to you to marry her/him?
2) Even if you met her/him abroad, what do you think was the reason for your parent’s very first visit to his/her town?
3) Do you think that your parents even entered the home of your spouse the first time they visited that town?
4) How many of you are able to boldly come forward and say that you knew your future spouse was Osu and you married her anyway, and everone is happy today?
quote: Do you imagine that even the staunchest supporters of this system aren’t even sure what crimes made one an Osu? Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart brought the Osu phenomenon to the awareness of many around the word. There, an Osu was a slave sacrificed to a deity. They needn’t have committed any more offences other than that they were slaves. The reason for their dedication to deities were mainly frivolous, e.g. a community experiencing a famine might believe that sacrificing a slave was the best way to appease the gods. This is what Katharine Slattery wrote of the Osu system: ---CSE
Again,
quote: In Igbo Society, each Village of Community, sees itself as autonomous, sovereign, and would not accept dictation from any other group. Ekwe Nche Leadership Series
Each Community decided what offenses would trigger the Osu albatross. Chinua Achebe’s examples in “Things Fall Apart,” from Okonkwo to Ikemefuna and the Osu caste system were designed to be allegorical, not documentary. You have to go to the different Communities to find out how their Osu gained the status. Perhaps therein lies the problem; the Communities that they come from, or that they are supposed to represent no longer pick “Igbo leaders”. People go to Abuja to become “Igbo leaders,” then they go back to Igboland to terrorize our hapless people.
[ April 08, 2002, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Patrick ]
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quote:Each Community decided what offenses would trigger the Osu albatross. Chinua Achebe’s examples in “Things Fall Apart,” from Okonkwo to Ikemefuna and the Osu caste system were designed to be allegorical, not documentary. You have to go to the different Communities to find out how their Osu gained the status. Perhaps therein lies the problem; the Communities that they come from, or that they are supposed to represent no longer pick “Igbo leaders”. People go to Abuja to become “Igbo leaders,” then they go back to Igboland to terrorize our hapless people. Patrick
I am sure there are many autonomous communities. Lets pick 10 communities and analyse their criteria. Members of this forum who practice the caste system should feel free to tell us what criteria they use.
As Patrick said:
quote: But, if you read IG Nwafor a little closely, you will see that a big part of his complaint is that many in that nefarious group that is today known as “Igbo Leaders” are of the Osu stock. Others have complained that the Osu are over-represented in Abuja. It has also been repeatedly stated and implied that the Obasanjos and Babangidas make a practice of seeking out Osu for ministerial appointments. Elsewhere in this thread, IG Nwafor stated: If the osu cast are joining Igbo enemies to destabilize Igbo land, then they are not helping their cause.” So, perhaps the question should be "Is Osu Ruling Igboland Well?" and not "Can Osu Rule Igboland?"
.
I have chosen some examples of Igbo politicians who are destabilizing Igboland. I never thought of it as a class war. But who knows. I still doubt the feuds going on between representatives in the Igbo states and Igbo federal appointees is a fall out of our class system. The well publicised ones, often with heavy losses of lives, include that between:
1. Ojo Ogba bicycle Maduekwe and ?Dr. Kanu Ota akara Orji;
2. Anyim Pius Anyim and Gov. Sam Egwu;
3. Emeka Offor and Gov. Mbadinuju,
4. Jim Nwobodo and Gov. Nnamani
On a minor scale, between: 5. Kema Chikwe and Gov. Achike Udenwa
So, all the five Igbo states are engulfed in conflicts pitching federal appointees against state ones. Having looked at the personalities involved, did you come to the conclusion that these wars against the Igbo people are fuelled by the caste system?
As there are already complaints of their over representation, I assume we will not have difficulties picking out who belongs to what caste from a comprehensive list of today's politicians.
I know that Igbo politicians perform very poorly. Like most of their counterparts from other ethnic groups, Igbo politicians are corrupt, mediocre praise singers. I will be surprised if they are so because they come from any artificial caste system. Nevertheless, let’s indulge in an evidence-based debate. I will call on all contributors to add as many names as possible to the list below. I will attempt to post as many names as possible. A few of the names may have resigned, sacked etc but they remain big players. Feel free to add more names.
Present and past Senate presidents in the present dispensation Pius Anyiam Chuba Okadigbo Evan(s) Enwerem
Other significant Federal Appointees Mbanefo Ojo Maduekwe Kema Chikwe Chukwuemeka Ezeife Vincent Ogbulafor Onyema Ugochukwu ABC Nwosu Tim Menakaya Ernest Ndukwe Philip Asiodu Kanu Agabi Ebitemi Banigo
Five chief executives of Igbo States Orji Kanu Mbadinuju Nnamani Sam Egwu Achike Udenwa
Elected members to the National Assembly Arthur Nzeribe Evans Enwerem Ike Nwachukwu Adolphus Wagbara Jim Nwobodo
[ April 09, 2002, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: CSE ]
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CSE, "Precisely, what crime makes one an Osu?"--CSE
Answer: An Osu of today like those of yester-years is ANYONE who by act, or word, or both betrays the collective will, good or interest of the Igbo nation. However, if "Osu" sounds so terrifing, then you can replace it with "efulefu." They both connotes same thing.
On another note, I think it will help your argurement if you can honestly answer Patrick's below reposted questions:
1) What do you think was the first thing that your parents did before they gave the go ahead to you to marry her/him?
2) Even if you met her/him abroad, what do you think was the reason for your parent’s very first visit to his/her town?
3) Do you think that your parents even entered the home of your spouse the first time they visited that town?
4) How many of you are able to boldly come forward and say that you knew your future spouse was Osu and you married her anyway, and everone is happy today?
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
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From the two names you recognized from CSE's list of "Other Federal...", I can vouch for Philip Asiodu. We don't have the Osu caste system in my area of Igboland.
Besides, it sounds like a very archaic and tedious nonsense. Is it not part of our culture to always judge a person on their own merits and demerits? Now, why must we continue that which disagrees with this fundamental value? To be very honest I first encountered any reference to Osu in Chinua Achebe's "No Longer At Ease" where Obi refused to marry his love because she was Osu. Until now, I never thought that some people still profess belief in it.
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Benbela, Ednut: As long as there are people who place their personal interest above that of the overall Igbo nation exists, there will always be that "nonsense" in Igboland; yours included. If you or anyone on board is seriously concerned about stopping "this nonsense," then what you have to to is to ask those Igbo sabotuers (like Ednut's hero Nwobodo) to desist from their NONSENSICAL and devilish (mis)adventure.
Pray that it is only in Igboland that Ojo Maduekwe can make his "nonsensical" statement and still be courted. Were he to be a Yoruba for example, he would have by now realised what it costs to rob your people to pay one's slave-masters.
CSE, Did I hear you say "elected?" The so-called Igbo representatives you listed were SELECTED by our enemies in Abuja. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ME AS AN IGBOMAN. I am 100% sure that this view is held by millions of hapless Igbos at home and in the Diaspora.
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Answer: An Osu of today like those of yester-years is ANYONE who by act, or word, or both betrays the collective will, good or interest of the Igbo nation. However, if "Osu" sounds so terrifing, then you can replace it with "efulefu." They both connotes same thing. –Nwa Aro
You are writing in future! I will support a fair system that punishes crime based on well founded evidence. Equally important is that such a system must recognise the lack of justification for inheritable punishment. About victims of the caste system of yester years, I think the evidence (or lack of it) so far suggests that most were victims of the ignorant and superstitious society they lived in.
quote:On another note, I think it will help your argurement if you can honestly answer Patrick's below reposted questions:
1) What do you think was the first thing that your parents did before they gave the go ahead to you to marry her/him?
2) Even if you met her/him abroad, what do you think was the reason for your parent’s very first visit to his/her town?
3) Do you think that your parents even entered the home of your spouse the first time they visited that town?
4) How many of you are able to boldly come forward and say that you knew your future spouse was Osu and you married her anyway, and everone is happy today? –Nwa Aro
I left Nigeria in my late teenage years. Whilst I lived there, I did not discriminate against people in age appropriate interactions on grounds of their caste. My parents quite clearly understand that it would be a waste of time to try to influence my preferences for a future nuclear family. My personal experience, regarding the situations listed by Patrick, is very limited. I suppose I can draw on the experience (publicly stated) of other members of the forum. Permit me to call my first witness, a musician, who through his work has highlighted the awkward consequences of the caste system. I mean Biafra.
quote: CSE, Did I hear you say "elected?" The so-called Igbo representatives you listed were SELECTED by our enemies in Abuja. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ME AS AN IGBOMAN. I am 100% sure that this view is held by millions of hapless Igbos at home and in the Diaspora. Nwa Aro
I share your sentiments. I listed the names and asked others to add to it. I wanted us to examine if it is true that bad Igbo ‘leaders’ come from any particular caste. I call on Dave to go a step further to help us decide if there is evidence to support complaints that bad leaders are from a particular group and not the other.
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From your list of "Other significant Federal Appointees" I recognized two osus.
I have done my part. Now let someone else name them.
CSE:
There you have it. Dave has given us an anecdotal evidence that for practical purposes, the osu tag is a stigma, and not a punishment. From your own list of a dozen well placed citizens of Igbo origin, Dave identified two that he says are osu. Notice that their osu status did not prevent them from rising to the highest levels in society. They suffered no material punishment from being Osu. Yet, Dave was squeamish about taking the step of identifying them by name and placing the Osu tag on them. I notice also, that you have nicely parried my four simple questions. Many of us left BiafraNigeria as teenagers. Yet, we know what happens when one Igbo decides to marry another.
quote: You are writing in future! I will support a fair system that punishes crime based on well founded evidence. Equally important is that such a system must recognise the lack of justification for inheritable punishment. --- CSE
Since we all understand each other to be delving into the future, perhaps it is time for CSE to recommend how Igbo should deal with those who inherit the fruits of crime. That takes us back to the same statement by the unnamed Ekwe Nche stalwart regarding those Igbo who are willing to commit crime for the benefit of their heirs,
quote: We must revisit the OSU system .... One of the first lesson that we will learn is that an Igbo might not care for his/her life as long as his/her generations are not threatened- HENCE THE OSU TOOL.
When you write,
quote: I suppose I can draw on the experience (publicly stated) of other members of the forum. Permit me to call my first witness, a musician, who through his work has highlighted the awkward consequences of the caste system. I mean Biafra. ---CSE
Are you referring to our own Mazi Biafra?
[ April 10, 2002, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Patrick ]
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posted
"You are writing in future! I will support a fair system that punishes crime based on well founded evidence. Equally important is that such a system must recognise the lack of justification for inheritable punishment."--CSE
By bringing in the "efulefu" metaphor into this debate, what I tried to do was to alert the young Igbo generation: that the anti-societal activities that the Osus of yester-years were accused of that prompted their being labelled thus and consequently treated like lepers is still with us today! So, we the new generation of Igbos MUST be prepared to use the "OSU TOOL" as Patrick reminded us as a deterent if necessary on the efulefus of today, lest, our generation and those after it may suffer more than those before us. For history has shown that those who refuse to learn from history always end up repeating it.
Yes, if one (mis)behaves same way their parents did, then nature demands that they be judged and (mal)treated like those before them.
"...About victims of the caste system of yester years, I think the evidence (or lack of it) so far suggests that most were victims of the ignorant and superstitious society they lived in."--CSE
You may be right that our fore-fathers lived in what you termed "ignorant and superstitiuos society." Nevertheless, you would admit that they lived in their time and surely had a system of tracking the record of those who lived amongst them and did use that system of their time to identify those with anti-societal behaviours and consequently casted them out (later refered to as Osu) from the mainstream comunity activities. So they were not as stupid as you would want us believe. BTW, if the so-called Osus were indiscrimately and without reason punished (as you alluded above), why were yours and my fore-fathers spared the "Osu" tag?
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I hope to make this my last post on this thread, on the begining of this thread i made my opinion clear as regards to (osu caste)segregation in Igboland, however, this position i took is highly regretable, first, it does not represent my person or what i stand for. I did ask myself who am i to question the perfect work of the ALMIGHTY GOD by labelling a human like my very self created by GOD on his likeness and image to this degrading and inhuman sitiuation like osu.I render my sincere appology if i did brand any body as osu in this forum. Inasmuch as osu caste system is a historical fact in Igboland I wish to dis-associate my self from labelling people osu thereby bringing thier liberty and right of been born free into question.I stand for Biafra, let us remian focused, there is too many distraction on this thread and it brings our intergrity as a people who belive in a total human liberty to the abyss, our enemy and the world is watching. onwuka
Biafra is my right.
___________________ He likened the second coming of Christ to the realisation of the Biafran dream, stating that at a time people least expect, the much sought Biafra would be a reality..Rev. Fr. Cornelius Ezeiloaku Posts: 622 | From: santiago, chile | Registered: Jan 2002
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I have so far stayed out of this discussion. I do not agree with having the osu system. But, that does not mean that we should permit Nazis and fascists like chinedu ogoke to gag our right to discuss it.
Odili:
Tell chinedu ogoke or whatever his stupid name is that I said he is a demented coward, a cretin of the lowest order. Nothing stops him from registering on this forum and joining the discussion. Did he not register at Biafraland before he could make that rabid post? Back in his village, Chinedu ogoke engages in discriminations against members of the osu caste.
But, he is out there in Germany encouraging a Nazi/fascist gag on discussions about the caste system, apparently to impress his 20-year old German girl friend. If he disagrees with what he has read at BiafraNigeriaWorld, he should join the forum and make his case like an intelligent person. All he has done so far is behave like a gutter-sniping reptile.
He may be right that this forum has no room for reptiles like him, and he may be well advised to slither on to the lower depths of the gutter that he lives in.
I personally have a problem when people just dump posts from another forum without applying them in their own arguments or explaning why the posts a dumped. I am sure that Josh Arinze, Ugobelu, and chinedu ogoke know about BiafraNigeriaWorld. Those members of this forum who are interested in Biafraland and the other forums know how to become members. Why couldn't your friend, chinedu ogoke, make his point intelligently the same way that Josh Arinze attempted to do in his response to Ugobelu?
___________________ Biafra, by any means necessary! Posts: 55 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Viatlis, First of all let me make it known to you that the so called Chinedu is not my friend neither do I know him personally. Do I have his e-mail address? yes because because I got it from Biafraland and I have never sent him any e-mail. I registered over there as a member because I wanted to become a member of MASSOB. Well anyway I am not. I will only join when I visit Biafranigeria anytime around this year. Let me also make it clear to you that I am not a member of their forum neither do I have access over there. So whatever I dump over here comes from my e-mail. I can give you his e-mail address so you can respond to him rather than sending me as your messanger. Say YES and I will PM you.
I will be dumping some more whenever I feel like. Thank you.
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