This is a long interview. If you are inclined to, read it all and you will at least have a view of the quality of people that run biafranigeria. We really have to thank God for protecting the poor in that space called biafranigeria b/c that must be the only reason they are still alive.
quote:when I was the chief of army staff. The easiest person to overthrow is Obasanjo because he alienated all the soldiers,
quote: the major who led the operation to my village, at the end of day one summoned the villagers to the centre of the village, and asked if there was any one of them who could speak Hausa. There was one of them who accepted that he can speak Hausa. Then he started explaining that he has used his discretion from the instruction that he got. The instruction was to kill everybody and destroy every property and that nothing would happen and the heaven will not fall.
Coup Is Still Possible Victor Malu, retired army general and former chief of army staff, speaks about the possiblity of a coup against President Obasanjo, his exit from the army, problems with Obasanjo, the military operations in Odi and Benue, his ECOMOG years and other matters in an exclusive interview with Newswatch editorial team of Tobs Agbaegbu, Chris Ajaero, Salif Atojoko and Mathias Oko. Excerpts: Newswatch: You were reported recently to have revealed that about 800 Nigerian soldiers who died during ECOMOG operations were secretly buried. What exactly happened? Malu: I was even surprised when it made headlines to the effect that I ordered the burial of 800 soldiers secretly. To start with, I was not in a position to order such a thing because I was not in Nigeria . Remember that in October 1992 when war broke out in Liberia between the NPF of Charles Taylor and the ECOMOG, I was the Nigeria contingent commander and the chief of staff of the ECOMOG as well as the director of operation. We lost a large number of officers and men. As a matter of fact, every aircraft that came to Nigeria to supply us logistic, came back with some dead bodies. So, I was making a reference that if anybody deserved national burial, it should have been those gallant officers and men who died in combat, on a mission sent by Nigeria . None of them received any national burial. So, to go and bury the bodies of the so-called soldiers who were leading the Jukun militia against the Tiv was an act on the part of the presidency, to raise the sympathy of the people towards him and to alienate the Tiv people which was not the correct thing. The truth about it is that the number of people that were killed by the boys who abducted them were more than 19. Nobody has asked to know if the people who were killed were more than 19. Why do they need to bury only the 19 and what were the other people doing with the soldiers? We have pictures to show that some of those people were carrying double barrel guns, some single barrel guns, some in slippers and none of them was in a military vehicle. They all went in pick-up vehicles from Taraba State . When did soldiers start going on military operation with vehicles borrowed from the state? If they were on a true mission, they would have been in proper combat vehicles like the ones that were sent to go and demolish my village. They were led by armoured vehicles despite the fact that there was no threat to anybody. For that first time, armoured cars were used to lead troops to go in for civil disturbances. You use military hard wares only when the people you are going to face are equally armed like yourself, to protect yourself. They carried out that operation for several days, they didn’t recover a dane gun, no automatic weapon, not even a spear. Newswatch: Is it true to say the 19 soldiers that were killed were on illegal duty? Malu: Whatever it was, they were leading other people to attack another tribe. That alone was enough to have warned the government that it was a wrong thing they were doing. The troops came from Taraba. If the governor of Taraba State asked for the troops because there were roadblocks they wanted to open and the police could not open, they would have been confined to Taraba State . They went many kilometres into Benue State and went to visit three different local government areas. If you remember the story, the 19 soldiers were abducted in a place called Vaase in one local government and moved to Zaki-Biam, which is the headquarters of that particular local government area. The soldiers did not confine operation in this particular area. They went to Logo local government area, they went to Katsina-Ala areas which had nothing to do with what has happened in Zaki-Biam. Even if we were to accept that the 19 were true soldiers, why did they have to visit so many other communities? Or was their mission to the effect that they have to kill any Tiv man because the people who abducted the 19 soldiers were Tiv? This is the point I am making. Newswatch: Do you think the operation was targeted at you? Malu: Of course, yes. It is not even a matter of assumption. My village is 15 kilometres south-east of Zaki -Biam. If they have destroyed every village from Zaki-Biam up to my village, I would have accepted that may be this was a planned decision that they should destroy as many villages as possible. But they left from Zaki-Biam, they did not touch any other village. They came 15 kilometres into a different local government where my village is, attacked the village, killed my uncle, his two wives, burnt their bodies, used the armoured vehicles, used petrol to burn my house, my father’s house and other houses on day one. They went away and came back the next day to complete the destruction. They carried out a thorough search of the village but could not find even a dane gun, not to talk of a spear or anything of that nature. I am not above the law, if they suspected that I was keeping arms, I am here, they could have arrested me or at least during the destruction of the village they could have got some evidence that they could use in trying me. They didn’t find anything. Newswatch: Is that to say the operation was carried out without the knowledge of the defence minister or other…? Malu: There is no way the type of operation that was conducted in my village could ever have been carried out without his knowledge, and I will tell you why. They used armoured fighting vehicles. You cannot take out an armoured vehicle even for the purpose of warming up without authority from some where. If these vehicles came all the way from Taraba into Benue State led by these armoured vehicles, it could not have been an adventure. The people came on a mission. Newswatch: Who is in a position to issue such order? Malu: Well, it has to be from the commander-in-chief, through the minister of defence down the line. But I spoke to my successor, the chief of army staff and he swore over his body that the people that came to my village could not have been soldiers. And I asked him a simple thing which till today he has not come back to me to explain. I said it was alleged that the army loaned their military hard ware to a local militia to attack my village. But you know it like I do that there is no way that, including you who is the army chief of staff, you can’t take armoured vehicle on your own, you must have to get an authorisation. The vehicle came all the way from Taraba. The distance is more than 150 kilometres, for them to come into Benue State to cause that kind of damage cannot be classified to be a misadventure on the part of any soldier. They came on a mission, an authorised mission. And the government till date has not even bothered to set up any form of enquiry. The army has not established any enquiry to determine who went to carry out such a heinous crime, under whose order, everybody has kept quiet. What other interpretation can we give to it. That you were authorised to do such a thing. As a matter of fact, if you read my memorandum to the commission, That the reason why he used his discretion was that when I (Malu) was the chief of army staff. I was such a fine officer that he will feel guilty if he did such a thing. So, what he did was that, he asked everybody, (beside those that were killed) to lie down as if they were killed. He took their pictures and went back to go and confirm that he has succeeded in his mission. All that is in my testimony and nobody has controverted it. Newswatch: What was your relationship with the commander-in-chief before your retirement? Malu: Well, you know the circumstances under which I left the service. We disagreed on professional matters. There were things that were happening and we tried to advise the president that these were not the correct things, especially starting with the issue of Americans that came, that they want to train Nigerian army for peace-keeping. If you ask Americans themselves, we should be training them. If you ever have an opportunity of interviewing ambassador Jetter, the current American ambassador. He was the one that represented the government of Bill Clinton on the Liberian crisis. He will show you a copy of the report he wrote and what he said about ECOMOG. He advised his own country that if they want to assist third world countries that have regional peace-keeping forces like ECOMOG, they should not bother about giving them troops or anything, but to give them only logistics. They are better equipped to do the job, and that what we achieved in Liberia could not have been done by the Americans. And he was being sincere . That man never knew he was going to come here as an ambassador. I have a copy of that report. That was what he wrote officially to the American government. But besides that, you as a Nigerian, you know the records of Nigeria in terms of peace-keeping. You probably knew what happened in Beirut . How they left that place. And the one in Mogadishu is not too far away. Because they are not prepared to come and shed their blood especially in third world countries. They are not prepared to go through the sorts of things we did. If we lost up to 800 men in Liberia and Sierra-Leone and we still stayed there until we brought peace, then you can understand the kind of experience we got. And in any case, in peace-keeping, the only other training that you require beside the normal military combat training we give to our soldiers is handling of internally displaced persons, refugees and so on. When a unit is nominated to go for peace-keeping, we organise a separate training, we… the Red Cross and other agencies who came to also do this or that. Because that is not taught in the army. The same thing happened to the Americans when they have to take part in peace-keeping, so what would they come to teach us. What they were actually coming to do was to get the intelligence of the armed forces of Nigeria . Newswatch: It was speculated that it was your insistence against the involvement of Americans in the training of Nigerian soldiers that led to your resignation. Malu: (cuts in) I didn’t resign. We were actually kicked out of the army. I didn’t mind because , if you know me very well, I was the last person that anybody would have expected to be appointed the chief of army staff. Not on professional ground. As to the professional ground don’t ask me. Call any soldier on the street and ask him. They know, I know what I do, but I insist on the right thing being done. I am not the type of person you can rubbish because you gave me a job. You take your job. I cannot change my mind at this age. So, if we advise and it was not accepted, then what was the point of hanging around. But it was more than that. If you remember we were appointed service chiefs on May 29. It was no fault of Obasanjo government that we came in middle of the year. We didn’t have a budget. From 1st June 1999 to December 31 of same year, we worked without a single budget. We didn’t do anything for the service. We were waiting to have a budget for 2000. When 2000 came, we drew a very moderate budget. In fact, especially for the army, we concentrated on three items only. That is, refurbishment of military equipment, repair of barracks and we selected a few of our military hospitals that we thought should be renovated and equipped, instead of sending people out for medical treatment every time. These were the three things in our budget and the total came to about N12 billion. We sent it to the ministry of defence, they didn’t object to it, they sent it to the finance ministry. When the figures were eventually released, Nigerian army got N950 million... for the year. And we went to the minister to ask whether there was any need for us to prepare a budget? Apparently, the honourable minister himself did not even see the figures of what the ministry of finance had allocated to the Army. Nine hundred and fifty million naira was the highest. That was what I got. The Navy and Airforce got lower than that. It was when we appeared before the senate committee on defence, when I made the presentation… in fact, it was embarrassing the way they took up the minister. It was the senate committee on defence, on its own that reviewed the figures and increased my figure from N950 million to N4.5 billion. I don’t know whether that was what offended President Obasanjo. We went from January till October without a single kobo of the budget being released. It was when the same senate committee went round, towards the end of the year, to know how the budget was going on. We had not moved to Abuja then. We were still in Lagos . So, the committee came to my office, and I told them that they made a mistake, you would have saved yourselves a lot of time. They are in Abuja with the honourable minister of defence, it was a matter of walking across and asking him how much he had released to the services, or the Army. Out of the budget of N4.5 billion, so that when they come I would have given them specific figures, but since they had come, they should go back and report that the Army has not received one kobo of the whole budget for 2000. And truly when they went back they made a lot of noise about it. It was then somebody went quietly, in about November, and sent in a cheque of about N286 million. Less than 50 days to the end of the financial year. So, even if I wanted to do anything from a budget of about N4.5 billion, what was I going to do with N286 million. I consulted with my colleagues in the Navy and Airforce and we lodged the money into the coffers for 2001. That means, we went from June - December 1999, January - December 2000, without money and then we had to prepare a budget for 2001. In fact, we went as a team to the honourable minister of defence to ask whether we should just re-submit the budget proposal for the year 2000. And he advised that we should prepare a budget incorporating what we didn’t do and what we want to do for 2001. We went and prepared the budget and sent. This time, my budget that was approved was about N7 billion. The happy thing about it was that this time there was a proviso in the budget that at the end of every quarter there will be a review in writing on how the budget has performed. We were very happy that at least, now that there is this provision, we will get some money. We worked from January to March, which was the end of the first quarter. Then a letter came from the Secretary to the Government of the Federation through the ministry of defence to ask us to comment on how we have faired in the first quarter. The honourable minister requested us to do so through writing. And I asked him whether he doesn’t consider that as an indictment on him, because we didn’t receive money from the minister of finance. Everything that we get comes through the ministry of defence. You know you have not released a single kobo to us, so what are we supposed to say. He said we should reply appropriately. In fact, I was so disappointed, I told my director of finance, to go and write and tell him that we have not received a kobo, and so we could not comment on how the budget has performed. This letter was submitted in the second week of April and by 24th April, we were kicked out of the service. So, that tells you how we fared. Newswatch: How were you able to ensure that the military did not resort to dissident moves? Malu: By what they did, if they didn’t have people with firm command, it would have been the cause for coup in this country. There was a time I went to see General Danjuma. He is my boss. I respect him a lot, and he knows I will always tell him the truth. I said, Sir, you are putting our lives in danger. We are supposed to be commanders, you have made us to be preachers, to the extent that we have even started telling soldiers lies. Because at every quarter, we have to go in to explain to them why things were not coming. That we are in a democracy, things don’t come in as quickly as they do during military government, that it is not just going to see your commander-in-chief, but you have to go through the constitutional layout. That is, no matter how well the president meant, the thing has to go through the national assembly for approval and so on. But the national assembly approved the budget but we didn’t get the money. So, how do you explain that? The lives of soldiers were not improved. In fact, just some few months ago, they started selecting some barracks for renovation, when this government has been in place for three years. What happened was that if there was no firm command of the army that would have been a reason to overthrow the government. Newswatch: Would that be enough reason for coup? Malu: Yes, it is enough reason to set the Army against the government. Newswatch: There is this belief in some quarters that you embarrassed the president at the Oputa panel and that this could have caused the problem you had with him. Malu: The president wouldn’t have been disappointed with what I said at the Oputa panel. I meant everything I said there. I will repeat it word for word if you want me to do so, because what I said were the truth. Some papers quoted me out of context. No body asked me anything particularly pertaining to Abacha. The question they asked was my wearing of Abacha’s badge. And I said I wore it proudly and I will be proud to wear it again. That in the army you don’t have 99 percent loyalty. You have 100 percent loyalty. If I disagreed with Abacha to the extent of wanting to plot against him like Diya did, I would have resigned my commission. I wouldn’t have gone behind to go and plot to overthrow him. I am not trained to run a country, I am trained to command soldiers. I have no apology to that. Newswatch: What about what you said about Odi invasion? Malu: I still stand by what I said and I will still repeat it. When I tell the press this, they only choose what they want, not what I say. The operations in Odi was done very professionally. To start with, I don’t know why they talk only about army in that operation. The operation was to be conducted by the Army, Police and the Navy. And each of us had its specific role. Unfortunately to some extent it was the army’s role that for some reason went sour. The army was to cordon the village physically to allow the police to go in, carry out searches, identify those who killed members of the police and the four soldiers. The navy was to use the flat bottom boat to cordon the creek. So, every one of us had specific task. We met in Port Harcourt and planned this. I have been to Port Harcourt myself with the chief of naval staff. The I.G. was not there but some one represented him. So, we planned a very clean operation. When we left Port Harcourt to head towards Warri Road on the way to Odi, we prevented any vehicle from overtaking us so that they will not go and give those people information that we were on the move. We also blocked the other part of the road to Warri for anybody not to go and tell the people that the soldiers were on the move. We commenced the advance and nothing happened until we got to the junction and turned on the road going to Odi. Less than 300 metres from the junction we entered an ambush. Three soldiers were killed right on the spot. Five received bullet wound. We had to dispatch some vehicles to convey the bodies and the wounded soldiers back to Port Harcourt. In fact, they were asking whether they should stop. I asked if they had completed the mission. They said no. I said look, you know what to do to get to the source. It was when the troops got to Odi, we witnessed sustained fire from the village. And this is what I say and people don’t like . And whether they like it or not, I will say it as far as I have the knowledge of the army, as I know. If we go for internal security operation like the Odi case, you are supposed to perform when you are alive, not as a dead man. If somebody is firing at you, you try to take his head. That is the training I had and that is what I have done in these 33 years. If you fire at me I will fire back and might kill you or other people. The amount of fire that was coming from the village the troops had to return fire. In any case, if you are inside a building firing, we first of all fire to bring down the building. In the process, we will also take you. That was exactly what happened. They didn’t go on a massacre spree. The soldiers that went to Benue went to a market area, separated men from the women and opened fire on them. If you are a reasoning person, would you say that it was in the process of separating the men from the women that the men opened fire on them. The ones that came to my village did not even ask a question. As soon as they went and surrounded the village, they started shooting. They killed an 85-year-old blind man with his two wives, very old and feeble. Can they say those old people were firing at them. And in all that operation, nobody has come to report that they recovered any gun or weapon. So, you cannot compare these two situations. And in any case, even if that was the case, after the operation, at the end, I went to the president and briefed him on the operation we conducted. Unfortunately we couldn’t get at those people because of all these firing. The navy was not able to carry out its role. So, the people probably escaped. We couldn’t achieve our mission. If the president or minister didn’t like it, that is when they would have removed me or order for my court-martial. You don’t wait until many years after I had retired to send people after me. So, what is that supposed to imply, that there is no more law in this country. So, the two situations cannot be the same. In fact, when we were planning this, the governor of Bayelsa attended the meeting, the governor of Delta State sent his deputy to attend as well. This was something that was approved by the president himself. Who am I to leave Abuja and go on operation in Port Harcourt or Bayelsa on my own. What status do I have? Newswatch: This has given us the opportunity to talk about the Diya coup. It was said to be a phanton coup. Malu: I don’t know what was meant by phanton coup. Diya himself, if you read the statement, you would have noticed he has said things that would have convinced you that he was very much a part of the coup. I think he wanted to hide behind the issue of Ishaya Bamaiyi to raise sentiments. But if you want to reason properly about it, Diya was number two to Abacha. Ishaya Bamaiyi, if you take in the hierarchy, even in the military, was not even number five. Ishaya went to invite Diya to overthrow the government and is Diya accepting that Ishaya was to become head of state? Would he want to consistently remain number two? Despite his seniority both by age and rank? Diya made a handsome financial contribution for the overthrow of Abacha. We recovered the money. It was an exhibit. Diya accepted himself that he corrected the speech that was handed over to him by Magaji. What was the speech. Was it to address troops going to Sierra-Leone? A coup speech is a coup speech. He has never denied this thing. Newswatch: Given the position that you have occupied in the army, it appears that if you actually wanted a coup, you would have conveniently executed one successfully. Malu: You mean in Nigeria, when I was the chief of army staff. The easiest person to overthrow is Obasanjo because he alienated all the soldiers, but for the fact that he had all the officers who were committed and loyal to him. I told you I spent all my time going round and addressing soldiers and warning them about the consequences of doing such a thing. I am talking of this democratic era. What did he do to the soldiers, you can see his performance when he came to the barracks here. Fortunately I had left the army. So, that was something I just smiled at when I heard it. I saw him... himself because they were asking him questions. Newswatch: Are you saying coup is still possible in this country? Malu: Coup is possible at any time. Why not. It is possible. Are the soldiers not there. Are they not armed. So, it is just a matter of getting some over-ambitions chaps. If without a firm control, they could go underground and do something funny. It might not succeed, it could succeed. And you know Nigerians. All the nonsense about enacting law to make coup illegal, you people have never legalised coups. You suspend the constitution when you overthrow a government. So, what are you talking about legality. Newswatch: What role do you think the military should play in order to sustain democracy in the country? Malu: You need a strong army that you can call on when you need it for the main role, which is the protection from external aggression. That is exactly what the Nigerian army is not, till today. Go to Bakassi, see the condition our soldiers are in. I remember that in one of our meetings, I told General Obasanjo that the soldiers we have in Bakassi, it looks like they are a sacrifice to the Camerouneans. Because at any time, thank God they didn’t know. They still think of Nigeria as a great Nigeria that has always been there. If at any time they want to react, they will take all those people as prisoners. Today, the Camerounean helicopters are flying around the area. There is nothing we can do without a military helicopter that can go even to Calabar. You know that. I think God loves this country so much that what happened here is not determined by us. It is just that God loves us, but some day, somehow He, (God) will look somewhere and then we will have problem. The state of the military is terribly bad. I served as chief of army staff for about 11 months, we didn’t buy one single round of 1.62. That is the ammunition that you use in these rifles.… It came to a point we didn’t know what to do, we started to make enquiries only to discover that there were some ammunitions Abacha bought. We did not know what it was meant for, that was with Defence Industry Co-operation, DICON. It was that ammunition we took and shared among the army, navy and airforce and the police. But for that, maybe they would have been working without anything in their magazines. Newswatch: What do you think happened at the Ikeja cantonment where bombs exploded some time ago? Malu: I decline comment on that. But I believe if it was money they didn’t want to spend then, they are now being forced to spend that money so many times over because the damage that was done at Ikeja cantonment is something you cannot believe. I don’t want to comment much on the issue of negligence. I don’t want to put somebody on the spot. I am retired. But if you are really interested in what happened at Ikeja cantonment, I can’t remember who is the chairman of that senate committee. When they came, because we were tired of writing to the ministry to complain of the danger posed in that. We took the committee, they saw it, went back and wrote to the same ministry. What are people talking as if they didn’t know about the dangers inherent there? I just say, well this is Nigeria , you can do anything and go free. It was such a disaster that not only soldiers died. Civilians close to two thousand died. Is that what you will go and set up a military enquiry? If you were in a serious country, you will go and select serving officers, you want them to indict the president or minister of defence? They will find themselves in the village the following day. Newswatch: There was this talk about the cooling system of the armoury breaking down and resulting in the Ikeja bomb explosion.... Malu: It is not cooling system of the armoury. Ammunition is stored in a very proper way. Some of the ammunition that exploded were brought back from Liberia . Without a pelet, we just arranged a round of 155 ammunition, just dumped them in a ship, just brought them and took them in because we didn’t have a proper place to put them in. We didn’t have any money to contract a proper storage for them. So, they were just dumped like that. And we kept making this case, saying look that thing posed a danger not only to the soldiers, but to the whole of that area. When that facility was built we didn’t have the kind of population we have there in Ikeja now. Newswatch: There were insinuations that it was sabotage. Malu: It wasn’t sabotage. It was something that was bound to happen. I can tell you that there is an officer, General Magajio, unfortunately I have not seen him since he retired. I think where ever he is, he will feel proud. He was the commander of the ordinance. There was no single week he didn’t raise an alarm about the state of the ammunition in that place. Like I said, we didn’t have money. I remember at a particular time, in fact, it was a very big problem. I took N3 million from my budget and I said look, I don’t know I have tried my best. You take this and do whatever you feel you can do, if it will help the situation. He laughed, and said… “well, you have tried your best.” Newswatch: What do you think about Liberia where you stayed as chairman of ECOMOG. The country is in the throes of crisis again. Malu: I wish General Abacha was alive because everything that is happening in Liberia was what was in my report. I took my time to brief the ECOWAS authority to tell them, if Charles Taylor is allowed to block the ECOWAS by refusing the ECOMOG to restructure the armed forces of Liberia , it was only a matter of weeks, months or at most a matter of a year before they will start looking for troops to go back. If you remember we had factions in Liberia . Taylor ’s was the biggest which transformed and won the election. And I went to him to tell him… “Your Excellency, please in your interest and in the interest of this country, do not attempt to restructure the armed forces of Liberia yourself. You could be honest about it, but you will be accused of transforming your own faction into a national army.” The disarmament we did in Liberia was not very thorough. We didn’t have anybody to help us. We wanted the Americans to give us the satellite picture so we can pinpoint where those ammunitions and arms were kept. Whether to raid and withdraw, they didn’t. So, we did what was physically possible. And we said, considering that type of situation, it’s only the ECOMOG that can restructure the army, because we could create an army that will involve the whole of Liberia irrespective of where you come from. And it will be a national army. Charles Taylor was very happy. He told his minister of defence to make a statement to that effect, which was done. Two weeks after, he went to Taiwan, and on his way back he passed through Libya and I think he got some four million dollars. Right at the airport he made a statement that he was the president of a sovereign state, there is nobody that can dictate to him about restructuring of the armed forces of Liberia. He had the capability and resources. I left Liberia that same day and flew to Abuja. If you remember, Abacha was still the chairman of ECOWAS. I told him that with the number of people we have lost in Liberia, the resources we have committed there, if we allow this man (Taylor) to do this, it is a matter of time. Those other people will go for their arms and another crisis will errupt. In fact, we are lucky that it took more than one year before they came up. I am not surprised one bit. I expected it was going to be even more. Newswatch: Approximately how many Nigerian soldiers lost their lives during the peace keeping operation in Liberia ? Malu: We lost quite a good number of soldiers there. Remember we went there in 1990 and we left there in 1998. So, it’s difficult to know now. The period we lost more people was in 1992/93 when the Operation Octopus was launched by Charles Taylor to recapture Monrovia. We lost a lot of people. There is no doubt about it. Then in Sierra-Leone, when the rebels stormed and took over power, we also lost a lot of people. Newswatch: Is it not dishonourable not to have accorded the Nigerian victims of the peace-keeping soldiers a befitting burial? Malu: That is the point, If Obasanjo can go and give a heroes burial to soldiers that went on an illegal mission, leading another militia to attack another tribe within the same country and went again to give them a national burial. That was in reference to the point I made, that if I brought as many as 800 dead officers and soldiers some of the most brilliant we have in this country, and nobody accorded them that type of respect then I find it very difficult to understand how the Nigerian soldiers that died in fishy circumstances to be given national burial. Newswatch: Were they buried in Nigeria ? Malu: Yes, we buried them here. At a point, because of the number of people that were being brought government gave a directive. In fact, I have a file, if I show you where they ordered that I should not carry any dead body back to Nigeria, that we were embarrassing the people. And by my training and experience any soldier of Nigerian origin, anywhere you die, it is our responsibility to send you back to be given a befitting burial in your home, so that your relatives will be informed of where your body is. They might want to come and carry it for burial. Newswatch: How did you handle the issue of morals among ECOMOG soldiers from Nigeria because we heard some of them had illegal children and wives, and that some of them came back with AIDS. Malu: No, no, that cannot be true. It is not everybody in Liberia that has AIDS. In terms of condition of service, it is not approved of a serving officer or soldier marrying a foreigner. The few soldiers who came back with Liberian wives, we gave it to them as an order. Get rid of your wife and continue to serve the army. Marry your wife, move out of the barracks, discharge from the army. Then I was the GOC in Enugu. I implemented that instruction to the letter. I was then not the chief of army staff. But then we implemented that order to the letter. Newswatch: What are your plans now that you have retired. Are you going into farming, or into business like some of your predecessors did? Malu: I worked for 33 years. I promised when I was leaving that for the first 12 months I am not going to do anything. The reason why I am talking to you today is that last April was my one year. That is why I can talk to anybody. I was living a very private life. Till today, I have not started doing anything, and I don’t intend to go and get disrespected because I am looking for contract. It is one of the things I swore in my life not to do. When you have an opportunity of serving your country as long as I did, I have a house, by my standard I believe it is okay. I have a house in Lagos where I intend to stay. I have one in my state, a house in an estate in Abuja which I think is comfortable enough for me to stay. I am not thinking about how to carry a brief case ... Those are the things people are afraid, that when you leave you might bring your family to a low standard of living. I think I surpass that. And I am happy. Newswatch: What chances do you think Obasanjo has in your area, given what has happened? Malu: I doubt if Obasanjo can get any vote in Benue. He should at least apologise for what happened. Every time you hear a statement from him, it is to justify why people should kill a soldier. Are the Tiv the first people to kill a soldier. And not even soldiers that were on a mission that was identifiable. You probably saw the report on the human rights watch on the crisis. You will hear what the president said about them. These are not Nigerians. They did not even interview people like me. They went to the remote villages and interviewed people through interpreters and got the correct version of what happened. Obasanjo was insulting the hell out of them as if they were paid by General Malu or anybody in Benue to go and supply the report. You can’t be a leader of a country and do a thing like that and think you can go free. Newswatch: What is your general assessment of the present democratic government and Obasanjo in particular? Malu: I will tell you that I am particularly disappointed. Those things that we expected that democracy will bring into this country, we have not seen any one of them. The standard of living of Nigerians has gone lower than what I used to know. Unless we just want to deny it because we don’t like the military. But the truth is that the standard of living has gone lower than what it used to be. It is only now that the elections are getting close people are rushing to do one thing or the other. Where were they? Why do they have to wait till such a time. To be very honest with you, the most corrupt military officer could not have done what the civilian governors are doing now. Newswatch: Do you think the level of corruption is higher in this dispensation now than there was under the military? Malu: Much, much higher. Well, the type of money that has come into this country in the last three years would have developed this country very well. You don’t need a magician to tell you. If the democracy will be nascent for 15 years, then we should keep calling it nascent. When Abubakar was handing over to Obasanjo, I was there as member of the PRC. We prepared a budget on the price of crude oil at nine dollars a barrel. You know the rest. What is the price of crude at white market, and what has happened. Looking at Obasanjo’s maturity having been head of state we expected that with all that accumulation of wealth of experience, an eminent personality if he comes to government, things will be better. What a big mistake. We voted for him not because he was a military man but because we deserve democracy. And if he is not operating democracy very well, we should be able to tell him that. Unfortunately, once you make such a statement, you become an instant enemy. If a leader does not listen to people to criticise him, then he should be a farmer in his village. You will be busy talking to your chickens because so long as you hold public appointment, you will be criticised and people will be pointing out to what is wrong. And it is in the process that you can do the right thing. As far as I am concerned, I have never contested my removal from the army because I am very grateful to Obasanjo to have given me the opportunity of serving as the chief of army staff. I think other than him nobody would have done that because I am too straight. If you want somebody you can manipulate and give order to go and do some dirty things, then I am not the right person. For him to have given me that opportunity, even if I had served for two days, I will still remain grateful to him for that. That is why even though we were kicked out I still say we voluntarily retired which is not true. For you to retire, you will write an application for retirement. The three of us were going to ask why he retired us. He explained to us that he knows we have difficulties working with the ministers of state that have just been appointed because we have a direct dealing with the minister. So, he has decided to bring in people who will start afresh to work with these people. And one by one we told him we are grateful for the opportunity. One week later, the minister of information went and made a statement that we were retired on security ground. For God’s sake, three service chiefs will constitute security for this country? If we wanted to overthrow him, it would have been a matter of seconds. At least I know for the army because I have commanded the army. And I am very proud of that. Newswatch: And it was never contemplated? Malu: Not at all. Nobody even thought of that. Newswatch Volume 35 No 24, June 17, 2002
___________________ Feel me? Ofu onye ana asi unu abia go. - Ednut Igbo-American . www.airamericaradio.com visit her. Posts: 2447 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:If a leader does not listen to people to criticise him, then he should be a farmer in his village. You will be busy talking to your chickens because so long as you hold public appointment, you will be criticised and people will be pointing out to what is wrong. And it is in the process that you can do the right thing.
-retired General Victor Malu, former Chief of Army Staff, BiafraNigeria
Ednut,
Thank you for this posting.
It is a must read!
___________________ ON Posts: 136 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ednutunde Are you and your uncle Baba Iyabo jittery in your pant now. You know Malu is a decorated soldier he knows what he is talking about. My hope is that it there is a coup, they better finish biggy belle and send him to join Abacha up there in heil with those prostitutes.
___________________ Biafra: save my bullets when I die, Oh Biafra, Allelua if I surrender and that will be forever. Posts: 272 | From: Birmingham AL | Registered: Mar 2001
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Malu should stop making noise. He saw evil and did evil. Only when he was the victim did it occur to him to complain about it.
Posts: 199 | Registered: Mar 2001
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The Thieves definitely are not the first to have killed Nigerian soldiers but they are definitely the first to experience in Northern and Middlebelt BiafraNigeria what the people of Biafra at Odi, Ogoni, Umuechem, experienced in the hands of criminals like Malu.
Malu, You deserve every crap that you are getting from your masters. You are getting the bitter taste of your medicine. Ntoo.
Ednutunde, I can care less if there's a coup again. Are you worried about your adaka looking master? I will love to see him sent to his grave in the most horrible way just like he did to my people at Owerri and other parts of BIAFRA. Obele nsi n'emebi ike.
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