You have had the Chance to Show your Stuff: You Failed!
For several weeks, many of us have kept away from this forum. Once we weaned you away from supporting Igbo abominations for the presidency of BiafraNigeria, we left you to show that you understand BiafraNigeria's politics, and that you can do well in the game.
We are Biafrans, but we quietly gave you support. Where we could not support you, we got out of the way. Now, you have failed. You have shown that you do not understand BiafraNigeria; you do not understand its politics; and you do not know how to win. It is time for you to check your egos, shut up and support the Biafra movement.
Do not do something stupid like wasting money in court and in the process end up providing a legitimacy to this result that it currently lacks. If you want to document the fraud, do so. Do not go on an ego trip and pretend to be doing so for Ojukwu, APGA, or Nd'Igbo. You will be on a fool's errand and you will be on it for your own selfish reasons. As usual, if we conclude that your conduct is too dangerous for Nd'Igbo, WE ARE GOING TO STOP YOU, and there is NOTHING that anyone can do about it.
Don't waste your breath. You should know that there is no scarcity of unemployed Igbo men in the United States and Europe; you know, the ones that are so quick to tell you where they are doing "LL.M," but will never tell you that they could not get employed after graduation. It is only among Nd'Igbo that you will find "Harvard graduates" that cannot get jobs in their field of study.
They study law, but between internships, they work as Igbo language teaching assistants. Most of them are glory hounds, unprincipled leaches looking for Igbo blood to suck. They could not bring themselves to support Ojukwu and APGA's campaign, but they now think that Ojukwu and APGA are ripe for the sucking.
Ask them the legal basis and theory upon which their suit will be based and they have none. They will tell you they went to court as a matter of "principle" or just "for the record." Only a fool goes to court just for the record. You go to court to win, you make an adversary of the other side in the dispute, and you seek a resolution that puts your side at a maximum advantage over the other side. If you want a record, go and hire a bookkeeper.
In their main, this bunch consists of poorly educated nigeria-trained lawyers who came to the US and received watered-down LL.M degrees, and some of whose experiences in the law consist of plea bargaining their clients into long prison sentences. They are desperate to be noticed, and they may be preparing to lead APGA and Ojukwu into a judicial ditch worse than the electoral fraud they have just suffered. Tufiakwa!!
Olisa Agbakoba had a party in the election. He is a lawyer. Why doesn't he go to court?
This efulefu smash could not have come at a better time.
Regarding the present discussion, it is a bit too obvious that if any person is available to jump into the plane and go to Nigeria for an open ended trip to defend a political party, that person is most probably unemployed in the US. Such a person is certainly not employed by a firm in the US. The unemployment could quite possibly have a lot to do with the status of the "LL.M Lite" degree as you well know.
Your e-mail is not working. Please, get in touch.
Posts: 31 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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I read your posts with a lot of interest, because, as a new member on this board, you evoked some topics, though I have my opinions on them, I had never debated on them. In any case, I cannot give my views on all that you mentioned, but I will have the opportunity to treat them partially with other subjects.
I believe that this is not the time to blame anybody, but to undersatnd what went on and propose some elements of solution. The second thing we need is communication between us in diaspora and with those in Nigeria, to understand their strategies, their problems so that we could exchange ideas. And your ideas or solutions is what I did not read above, which we need more than blames.
Africa has a lot of problems, all the countries are debtors to some extent. We all remember Obasanjo flying round the world for debt forgiveness. If the continent is in such a terrible state, it is because Africans as a whole have not yet discovered the origin of their problems, thereby beating about the bush. If Nigeria or Africa has not found solutions to its problems, how do you think that Biafra will do it? Already, during the Biafra -Nigeria war, Biafra was supported by France. But France is even worse than Britain. British imperialism is geared towards economy while that of France is political. This means that while Britain would like to loot your resources economically, France would like to have political control which means economic as well. There many African countries rich in natural resources like Gabon that have oil, Central Africa Republic that have diamond, Ivory coast that have cocoa, etc. How many times did you hear them make any remarkable statement in favour of Africa. This is because everything is decided by France. For example, their monetary is managed by France who can devaluate it at will. They must sell their products to France, who will in turn sell them to whoever wishes to buy. This means that if Nigeria want buy diamond from Central Africa republic, it is in fact France that will sell it to Nigeria. The above is just to show you that Biafra was lucky not to have won the war, other we would have found ourselves in the same situation as Gabon and co, our money being manaaged from Paris or even Brussels. Nigeria is almost making the same mistake, being teased by the French as giant of Africa and pushed into such rubbish as adopting French as second official language, costly projects, etc The US is now in Iraq and we know Britain for a very long time. Some weeks ago, I glanced through an article saying that the fate of Nigeria Airways was going to be determined in London. You see, Britain is always present economically, but we do not seem to notice much of their presence. Finally, France has soldiers in almost all her former colonies in Africa and Biafra would have been an exemption. I am only trying to prove to you that if Nigeria could remain one country through SNC, it would be the best solution for everybody. Disintegration of Nigeria should be the last thing to do, when all the other possibilities might have failed. Even in this last option, it could happen without the Igbo having any input, maybe only giving advice to others.
So, Africa's major problems have the west as origin and if Biafra tries to lie on the west like others, there is no need. African countries should manage better their resources and develop home-made projects, if possible do without aids from the west.
If Africa gets industrialized, western countires will be less rich, so they do not have any interest in helping Africa realize the project, and if they can hinder the progress, they would do it. If you have any projects for Igbo people, Nigeria or Africa, make communicate with other Igbo, Nigerians or Africans. Do not hide anything because we, black people, are being watched in everything we do, including what happens in our homes.
I have to stop so far. There are many other things worth mentioning, but for another time. I recall what I said earlier, we have many problems in Nigeria because we search in the wrong direction. Those who manipulate and antagonize others work day in day out, but if we take a little time to reflect, listen to others and communicate, we will do better.
But what we need now is to make the peoples' votes count, not only the Se but Nigerians as a whole. Failure to do that is giving the politicans the licence to rig election. PDP for ever! My suggestion is to re-organize the elections in the states concerned or the whole election. The first step is peaceful protest, then court actions, etc. We should be fearless in defending our rights.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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You seem to have missed a lot of the points made above. Among those points is that if you set out to challenge the government and its vast resources, it would seem that you should employ the best lawyers available. Don't you think that the unemployable Igbo lawyers in the US are the worst you could possibly use for this sort of problem? The rationale of firms and institutions in the US is that academic/intellectual defects exist in the education of these people, which academic/intellectual defects led to unemployment, which, defects could also prove fatal to the client's case in court. You would be shooting yourself in the legal foot, so to speak, if you employ mediocre legal representation.
And, it is unethical for a lawyer to deceive a client by pretending to represent the client's interest, if the lawyer was actively opposed to the candidates politcal aspirations. I believe that the first two writers were concerned about 1) the advisability of rushing into court, and 2) the use of defective legal resources to confront a wealthy opponent in court.
Would you care to address those issues?
P/S: It seems that the people that stole the vote would tamper with the judicial process as well. Other means, for example this by the ANPP, should be given a good amount of time to work. It seems that the ruling party is already baiting the opponents into court, as this gentleman has "enjoined aggrieved parties to take their complaints to the courts."
[ April 23, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Renee ]
Posts: 31 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001
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As I said, it would take me some time to treat every issue. I just talked of my position on Biafra with respect to Nigeria.
Secondly, some of us tend to "swallow" every idea thereby misleading some people. With today's world economy, there is unemployment in many countries. But I do not see why Ojukwu should use Igbo lawyers from the US instead of qualified and experienced lawyers in Nigeria. The problem of choosing lawyers or going to the court is not, to me the most important issue. It is about defining well our problems, communication and having common objectives. I would have expected people protesting peaceful to show that they did not vote, where there was one, for those announced as winners. It is more important than any other issues.
Finally, we have to adapt to the changing world, take into consideration the needs of our societies before choosing our areas of academic specialization. At certain stages in life and academic achievements, we should think of creating jobs instead of looking for one. We should think of developing the SE economically, which could be achieved through communication to assess our needs and what we can offer. We need governors who have vision, who know how to use our technical and technological capabilities. The same applies at Federal level. My main point is that people create jobs, and as from graduate level, people should be able to do so, communication and team-work should permit the enabling environments. We need these issues addressed to succeed, whether or not we win the court case.
I cannot detail everything now. But if for example, Ohanaeze Ind'igbo can issue a statement which reflects what happened during the elections in the SE and the way forward accepted by all, that would be the right thing. You see, everything depends on cmmunication.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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May be those lawyers are not good in the united states but they are good in Nigeria. may be it is discrimination. have you thought about that? may be it is their accent?
___________________ Good Times Posts: 19 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2003
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Sylva: Sounds like Kwame Nkuruma, anyway, Biafranigerians of all age, creed and nationality accepted obasanjo's presidency in 1999 not because he has a better record than the rest past dictators like himself nor that he was consireded the messiah that will save nigeria. rather, the judgement was that obasanjo was old, experienced, fresh from jail, will be a transitional president who has seen suffering in the hands of another dictator, will bring stablity and enthrone true leadership and democracy in the mold or something near Nelson Mandela to a people so starved of every goodthing of life. today, we are wrong and fustrated because we has dinned with the worst devil, STUNNED and still wonder what obasanjo left in the goverment house to insist on going back there in defiance of total public rejection, after a four years of mass killing, ethnofavourtsm, divide and rule, godfather distribution of wealth and resources, nonexistance of basic public utilities, lack of security and hunger in among plenty, for me and the majority of the citizens exerpt the "cowardice yoroba race", France and Europeans did not ask obasanjo to commit this fraud that might as well take his own life and cause chaos and suffering to allBiafranigerians, assuming that he was so asked, does he not have the right to say NO. why has an old man like obasanjo lose every sence of normal human behaviour and chose to behave like an animal. obasanjo and his yoroba race most pay the price of evil and there will be no excuse.
___________________ He likened the second coming of Christ to the realisation of the Biafran dream, stating that at a time people least expect, the much sought Biafra would be a reality..Rev. Fr. Cornelius Ezeiloaku Posts: 622 | From: santiago, chile | Registered: Jan 2002
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okwyonwuka, Obasanjo had been called from jail to become president. He could have refused, but he didn't. During his first term, he did not perform, we can say that we have see such before and even today it still happens in some countries. At this point, we have nothing against him. It is then left for Nigerians to judge him, to say whether he achieved something or not during his first term. That is where he started to make mistakes. He rigged the presidential primaries and again the elections. Otherwise, he would have been thrown out since and he knows it. That is the only thing we have against him. It is a big test for Nigeria because it would determine the future. If we allow somebody to rig the elections and get away with it, then others will do the same thing. The danger is there. The majority of Nigerians did not see any change in their lives during the Obasanjo's first time, but at least their votes should be respected.
As concerns France and other Western countries, most of their leaders are jealous of African countries who stay in power for as long as possible. The Western leaders would have done the same in their countries if they could. So, nobody refuses power, obasanjo is no exception. But the only way to stay in power in a democratic environment is to perform as to gain the support of the electorate.
You must have heard western countries talk of their interests in third world countries. How is that third world countries do not have interests in western countries? By now, everybody should be able to decode those languages, to enable us protect ourselves. But how do the west safeguarde their interests? By supporting the leaders of third world countries, corrupting them, putting the countries in a financially difficult situation in order to dictate for those countries, etc, and no matter what third world leaders do, as long as those western countries get what they want from their countries. We can make our leaders accountable to the citizens, we can protect Nigeria/Africa from being looted by foreign countries. and the first step is to speak out and communicate among ourselves and in particular educate those in Nigeria/Africa. If the population understand what really happens, it would be difficult for some Nigerians or foreigners to intimidate, manipulate or antagonize them. Finally, we should be determined in our fight so that foreigners won't be able to protect our corrupt leaders.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
My take on this is simple. What's bad for American employers is bad for Nd'Igbo. We cannot have people come to America and fail and then go to Ala Igbo to do shakara.
I thought we had this debate before.
Posts: 162 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Ike, I would have preferred that you illustrate a little more your point of view. But I can say one thing, life in Europe and the US seems to be different in some ways. So, I can't jump to a conclusion that somebody failed because he/she decided to move to Nigeria permanently or temporarily. It is not true, in Europe that I know better, and from the information getting to me from the US, including some of the views already expressed here, I doubt that it is true either in the US.
I am one of those who, through my personal experience believe that Africa is the best place for place black people, that we should make our children know well Africa and urge them to move there if they judge it necessary.
The point is that black people should not be playing second hand roles all over the planet, what go on in most developed countries, we can make them happen in Nigeria/Africa. For the same reason among others, I feel that there should be no serious relationship like having children, marriages, between blacks and whites because it is too dangerous for black people. It is no racism, it does not work; blacks and their children pay heavily for it. The situation may be different in the US, but in Europe, where such things still happen, my point of view is as above.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
From today's Guardian, it seems that the Hausa "members" of APGA are the ones trying to go to court. I am sure they will find some Igbo errand boys to work for them
quote:APGA's National Secretary, Alhaji Sam Abdulahi Shinkafi said: "We have observed that this is not election by mandate but election by conquest. We will challenge the result in the Court of Law".
Asked whether APGA would seek legal redress in cooperation with the Conference of Nigerian Political Parties (CNPP), Shinkafi said: "That's a high possibility. We are heading for the elections tribunal. It will carry more force if all of us (parties) join hands. It's a new solidarity movement".
The APGA scribe continued: "We totally reject the outcome of the elections owing to massive rigging which has been attested to by even the international observers. In our suit, we are calling for the scrapping of INEC and want its chairman Abel Guobadia to resign"
On why APGA feels the nation is better without the commission, Shinkafi said: "We have lost confidence in the body. They cannot conduct a free and fair election. Look, elections were not conducted in Rivers and Delta states but results were announced. There was massive rigging in the South West, South East and some part of the north. We are going to the tribunal because Nigeria is in serious trouble."
On his part, the Majority Leader in the Plateau State House of Assembly, Mr. Victor Samson, said that Buhari's comments were capable of inciting the military into taking over power in the country.
According to Samson, Buhari's utterances are very inflammatory which portend danger for the country's nascent democratic journey, adding that he should not be taken seriously.
Samson, who was speaking with journalists in Jos yesterday, said that all those complaining about rigging were cohorts of military apologists "who think they could cause confusion for the military to take over."
The lawmaker argued that in the past, Buhari had never been known to be a democrat "because in the past, 1983 precisely, after a successful election, he seized power by force through the barrel of the gun."
Samson, who saw the election results as representing the voice of the people, argued that it was where election results were not favourable to them that they complained of rigging. "Buhari and his cohorts waited for the overall results to be announced before complaining", he said.
Also, the advisory council of Obasanjo Solidarity Forum (OSF) in the South West, said yesterday in Lagos that it would resist any attempt by Buhari and others in the opposition camp to rubbish the victory of President Olusegun Obasanjo.
OSF also vowed not to entertain any negative acts that could tamper with "Governors Gbenga Daniels, Rasheed Ladoja, Olagunsoye Oyinlola, Olusegun Agagu and Ayo Fayose, who were popularly elected by the masses in the South West states of Nigeria."
The statement, signed by Alhaji Lekan Yusuf, South West Foundation Secretary of OSF, wondered why Buhari should call on other countries of the world not to recognise the administration of President Obasanjo after May 30 and noted that such a call was a baseless one that must be completely rejected.
Besides, a newly elected member of the Federal House of Representatives, Alhaji Abubakar Momoh, asked Buhari to sheater his sword and embrace Obasanjo.
Momoh, who represents Etsako Federal Constituency, was elected on the platform of the PDP during the last April 12 National Assembly polls. He said that it was ridiculous to hear that Buhari, a former Head of State, could go through an election and still call for the cancellation of the polls in some states where the ANPP lost.
Why is a Hausa man pushing to go to court.
Sylva:
I thought the debate was about Igbo people who live in the US or Europe and who have tried and failed in those places. You appear to be confusing that with people who moved back to Nigeria. You ought to know that many of the people now in power in Nigeria are the people who committed crimes in the US and went to prison. We have that problem in Cross River and Akwa Ibom. If they belonged to prison in America, they should belong to prison in Nigeria.
If Aluko wants ********************1.com linked from BNW, Aluko should link BNW at ********************1.com Posts: 66 | From: Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Calling what happened in Biafranigeria last saturday an election is an insult to citizen, all over the world who choose their leaders by election process. What happened last week was ballot allocation, fraud thuggrty, daylight robbery and OBT.
Onyema I do agree though, but the only problem is that there still too many chiefs no Indians, both at home and in diaspora. Another obstacle is that there are so many Ojo Maduekwes waiting in the wing. to take over to do Obasanjo;s dirty work for him in Igbo land.
For the sake of credibility of articles, it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them as you did above. The reason is very simple; there are a lot of fake articles or propaganda in the news. APGA's National Secretary, Alhaji Sam Abdulahi Shinkafi, gave an opinion, which could be either personal or that of the party. I remember haven read Chief Okorie saying that they would be heading to the court.
As we know, Nigeris's case is complex, and we have the same problems like most of the countries colonized by Britain such as (India, Pakistan, Kashmir) and Iraq. No nation in Nigeria had an input in the making of Nigeria and our leaders refused or were forced to refuse a dialogue betweeen the nations to find a home-made solution. Under such circumstances, it is not possible to again rig elections to preside over a country that many of its component nations are not satisfied in the way it is being managed. If the rig is confirmed, then it would be a mistake to leave Obasanjo stay at Aso Rock without addressing the issue with all the political parties. If we allow that, then it will continue.
We should all know that western countries do not wish Nigeria/Africa well. Anybody living in the west, who does not understand that is either sleeping or deceiving oneself. One forumite used it as a reason for not believing their report on the elections in Nigeria. But the question is, if the person agrees, like me, with the above, why is it too difficult for Obasanjo to understand? But if he understood and still invited them to monitor the election, he has no other choice than to accept their report, there is no way he could turn round to call them liars. Obasanjo invited those foreign observers, he cannot refuse their report which has been confirmed by all the opposition parties.
As regards the debate here, we were talking of Igbo lawyers going home to defend political parties in Nigeria, including APGA. It was mainly concerned with those in the US, the only reference to Europe had been made by me. However, if you disagree with anything in this last paragraph, then you can let me know.
So, the Igbo are doing very well, otherwise people won't be talking about them. Two years ago, some Europeans, especially the French, went around propagating that the Igbo in Nigeria abandoned education. Yet it had been proven that the opposite was the case(number of admissions into secondary schools and Universities,JAMB results). Unfortunately, they they always try to deceive and antagonize those who do not know them well; I would have washed them from their heads to their toes, sending them into hiding.
I do not know anybody in Nigeria who committed crime in the US or Europe. You should let us know if you know of anybody, it is part of the fight against corruption and nation-building. Let me remind you that late Bola Ige, under Obasanjo administration, signed a treaty for extradition of Nigerians to the US without obtaining the reverse, that is the extradition of Americans to Nigeria. Normally treaties between sovereign countries are said to be bilateral, not unilateral. Hoping that the next administration will rectify it.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I have a few comments regarding your last post on this thread:
1) I suggest that any chief or Indian who did not do what is expected of them should be exposed and criticised by the Igbo. But of course defended if unnecessarily attacked by others.
2) The same goes for the Igbo ministers, senators or governors, etc they should be dealt with if they do not defend Igbo interest and guarantee their security and that of their properties all over Nigeria. I used to read of Ojo Maduakwe and his relationship with some foreigners, in particular the French. I stopped reading about that sort of news when I blew open the role of French intelligence in the terrorist attack at the UNN and in the arrest of some members of MASSOB. As much as I am concerned, every Igbo is a member of MASSOB as every Yoruba is a member of OPC. I do not see how somebody could be killed or arrested for that reason. We cannot accept the unjustified death of an Igbo or any Nigerian for that matter, any longer.
3) Communication should be our key word. Those who have bad intentions or who do bad suceeed because those who are aware of it failed to inform others.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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For the sake of credibility of articles, it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them as you did above.
Sylva:
You are wrong. It has become stupid to rely on a Guardian link for the purpose of credibility of articles, instead of copying the relevant part of the article. If you have any doubts about that, go ahead and demonstrate your point using a link to a Guardian article. I will return to expose the stupidity of using the link, instead of copying the article. Ekpo gave you the date and the source. That is enough.
Posts: 145 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote: From today's Guardian, it seems that the Hausa "members" of APGA are the ones trying to go to court. I am sure they will find some Igbo errand boys to work for them---Ekpo
That may not be enough. As you can see above, Ekpo, though stated the day, but he did not write the title of the article.
But, I would like to tell Sylva that some links somehow do not work on this web site. Probably, due to technical problems. I have tried posting a particular link to support one of my posts, but, it didn't work. I had to copy the news like Ekpo did.
___________________ IGBO AMAKA Posts: 79 | From: Porthacourt | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:That may not be enough. As you can see above, Ekpo, though stated the day, but he did not write the title of the article.
Blessing:
You seem to be suggesting that Ekpo should have copied more of the article, to include the title. I agree.
If you were having problems posting links such as Guardian links at BNW, you may have been copying the wrong link; i.e., you may have been copying the link to the article index, instead of the link to the article frame. Some BiafraNigerian newspapers use frames. When you get the correct link, it should work.
But, my challenge to Sylva remains.
[ April 26, 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Ezeka Onu ]
Posts: 145 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Ezeka Onu, What I was saying is that some articles are mere propaganda, fictive and manipulative. In most media, articles are accessible online for weeks or more after their first appearance. But an article based on manipulation could be removed from the newspaper if exposed, and in this latter case we will know from the link and then stop discussion issues whose reference is no longer there.
Secondly, this is a forum for exchanging ideas, it is up to the forumite to extract the information on which their arguments will be based. Some people might be satisfied with the quotations, but we should give forumites a choice between reading the whole story or an extract.
An example is an thread posted on this board by Ogbunigwe on the massacre in owerri of MASSOB members. I have wriiten a reply to his post, making the same comments as I did for that of Ekpo before noticing that the topic had been locked. In my reply to Ekpo's post, I have not been specific about the Guardian, but my advice was to provide links when possible. If it was a letter sent to him from Nigeria by post or by fax, he should say it. It will be enough.
As concerns the stupidty of providing a link, I would like to hear from you. I might learn something, we are here for that. I did not respond to your post earlier because I did not see it.
Blessing, You are right about some websites whose articles cannot easily be linked to others websites. What I do, in this case, is to look for the same news elsewhere, where the link can be provided. But on BNW, every article can be linked. When you place the cursor on the linked title of the article, you will see the link displayed in the address/command line on the of the page. But if the problem persists, then you may send me or Ezeka Onu or somebody else subscribed to this forum a PM.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:From today's Guardian, it seems that the Hausa "members" of APGA are the ones trying to go to court. I am sure they will find some Igbo errand boys to work for them ….
Sylva wrote,
quote: For the sake of credibility of articles, it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them as you did above.
Ezeka wrote,
quote: It has become stupid to rely on a Guardian link for the purpose of credibility of articles, instead of copying the relevant part of the article.
Sylva's statement and Ezeka’s are in direct opposition; one is correct, and the other is incorrect.
Then, Sylva wrote,
quote: In my reply to Ekpo's post, I have not been specific about the Guardian, but my advice was to provide links when possible.
Sylva:
No! Your advice was not merely “to provide links when possible.” Your advice to Ekpo was
quote:it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them as you did above.
There is a huge difference between the two statements. Certainly, it was possible for Ekpo to provide the link instead of copying the article. But, would that have been better, first in this instance, and second, as a general rule, as you propounded? That is the issue.
I am not sure why you felt the need to say that you had not been specific about the Guardian. Could it be that you have discovered that the Guardian does not fit your sweeping generalization that ”it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them?” The immediate questions you should answer are 1) would it have been better for Ekpo “to provide the link instead of copying the [Guardian] article?” and 2) is it always better, as you assert, to provide links to articles instead of copying" the articles?
The onus is on you to demonstrate your assertion since Ekpo’s statement clearly says “From today’s Guardian,” and you proceeded to make your blanket statement that ”it is better, when possible, to provide links to articles instead of copying them,” a statement that is clearly directed to all articles, including Guardian articles. If you are unable to overcome that hurdle, say so and move on to other issues.
It seems to me that the only way for you to overcome it is for you to demonstrate, by example, the improvements to be derived from using a link to a Guardian article, instead of copying the article. For your convenience, there are many Guardian articles that are relevant to the topic of this thread. Once you demonstrate your point, it will be Ezeka’s responsibility to rebut it, by demonstrating the “stupidity of relying on a “Guardian link for the purpose of credibility of articles.”
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Daud, I was trying to inform Ekpo that I had the habit of copying a few lines of articles that interest me, with or without the headlines and including the link. Those who have already read the articles would comment directly on the issue if they so desire. Those who have not yet read the articles have choice between reading the aricles, the links of which I have provided, making it easier for them or to be satisfied with the lines I quoted or copied. If the links I provided are no longer accessible, normally the forumites won't comment on the issue, because there could be something amiss. But in any case, nobody would doubt the credibility of origin of the articles if the links function. What was missing in my former posts is the two levels of credibility: one with respect the the forumite which vindicates him/her of inventing a story, the why of the link and the credibility of the provider of the news, the media. In this last case, the articles become inaccessible when the articles are not credible and if exposed. Possiblities of misinterpretation always exist in communication, but we should feel free to ask for clarification. I hope that Ekpo and Ezeka did not stop the discussion without obtaining all the clarification they needed.
The expression, "it is better", in my first post is subjective. So whether I repeat it or not is irrelevant because it is I who said that it was better. Ekpo and Ezeka might not agree with me, my only option would be to prove it. In one of my posts on this board, I made mention of today or of today followed by the date as being yesterday, today or tomorrow, depnding on where you are on the globe. This could be one of the reasons why some black people are vulnerable to manipulation because they believe anything. Unless, it is an article which has no reference online(they are few), if you copy an article and tell me that it is from a given media on a given date, why do you expect me to believe you without verifying it? It is exactly to save people that time of verification before contributing to your thread that makes it better to provide a link. If they feel lazy to verify, they may not comment on the thread. So, since my first contribution to this thread, I have been talking of credibility of origin of articles. If I still miss something, please feel free to let me know.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ekpo gave the date of the article. He gave you the source. He copied much of the story. If you wanted the link, you could have gone to Guardian, and a glance at the headlines would have shown you the story he was quoting and the link. That's what I did.
If you must also have the link, you should provide it. For, to parallel your own words, it is better, when possible, to provide a link than to write essays beating and bubbing about in shifty circuitous rhetoric
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I agree. 
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If you must also have the link, you should provide it. For, to parallel your own words, it is better, when possible, to provide a link than to write essays beating and bubbing about in shifty circuitous rhetoric