Thank you indeed for according me the benefit of the doubt in regards to proper form in addressing others on this board. Correction is henceforth accepted with appreciation and equal apology to you and others for previous cavalier misapplication.
I must commend you for the appropriate handle of the misaddressed issue.
Nwa Aro,
quote:Sylva: You got it all wrong. My addressing Okwy "brother" had nothing to do with Blessing's correction of Ukabobasi when the latter addressed her as "Bro." It was just used as I often address some people and some forumites do address me sometimes. It is just a fraternal gesture which means nothing more than that. In any case, since Ukabobasi who irrenously reffered to Blessing as "bro" instead of "sis" (I guess Blessing was conplaining of her sex being misunderstood or wrongly addressed) has been humble to apologise to Blessing, I think that the case died there and should be left out of this thread henceforth.
Exactly what happened. I only tried to point out that I was impertinently addressed. And I am very glad it ended with understanding.
Sylva,
quote:Nwa Aro, What I understood from blessing is that we it is better to use the usernames to address the forumites, without "bro" or "sis" or whatever. Then if I use he or she to refer to blessing while discussing with you, I think he won't complain.
The truth is in Nwa Aro’s response.
All,
Back to the issue at hand, Should the South –east form Alliance with the North? The contributions have been quite impressing, I quite agree with Nwa Aro
quote: Believe it or not; until we have Igbos as leaders who are Igbo first and then Nigerian second like Ejike Mbanu, Akanu Ibiam, Micheal Okpara and Mbakwe amongst others were, Igbos and Igboland will continue to be the LAST, vis-a-vis Nigeria's socio-political and economic politics. And we must not hold any other Nigerian or foreigner responsible for this. WE SHOULD SORT OURSELVES OUT AND FAST.
First, Ndigbo are not united, It might sound strange, but, in the present day political Nigeria the Igbo’s are their own enemies. Some Igbo born politicians do not act as Igbo politicians but as Nigerian politicians. Arthur Nzeribe is one of such politicians. What makes a politician Igbo: A Igbo politician is one who struggles for the betterment of Ndigbo in general, repeating what Nwa Aro said, being Igbo first and then Nigerian. These igbo born but Nigerian politicians, try to sort out their personal political desires in the detriment of Ndigbo. I believe that our prime problem lies with such politicians. They should be tackled with before other intruders. By the time we have sorted ourselves, we can now think of the strategies to be used in dealing with the enemies outside. That should be our second objective. It is at this stage, we can now consider the option of alliance, if need be.
___________________ IGBO AMAKA Posts: 79 | From: Porthacourt | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
While I wish to say thank you for thanking me, I take strong issue to your use of the term "impertinent" to describe my greeting you as bro. The use of the word "impertinent" in the same breath with "thanks" referring to the openess and straightforwardness with which I addressed something by which you clearly seemed displeased leaves the impression that you are being disingenuous, and is in itself impertinent in the extreme, but that is for you to sort out.
Sylva,
You stated:
quote:As a new member, I have not read all the former posts of older members on this board. So, I learn each time they post a new thread, especially on opinions.
If you have not, then I suggest you do. Dont get me wrong this is not a tongue in cheek response. especially if we are to consider your remark below:
quote: what we need is your OWN ideas, what you propose to help us move forward.
If the above does not validate the reccomendation to review some archives, then I dont know what will.
Furthermore you stated
quote: But don't go through peoples' posts, looking for sentences or commas that you dislike and then say,"I will tell you where you got your ideas". It is irrelevant,
In a sermon sometime ago our priest stated:
"The absence of conflict is no indication of the prescence of harmony"
If harmony is your goal then I suggest you're going about it the wrong way and definitely looking in the wrong place. If common solutions to our shared problems is you goal, then be prepared for conflict. Both with those who are in agreement and with those who may be in disagreement with your goals. While you may get subjective judgement and criticisms of your approach or ideas from me, You will never get ill will nor see me use invectives against your handle.
Am sure however that you dont imagine that by glossing over real issues on this board we can harmoniously dabble roughshod into generalities all in the name of having "IDEAS" of which am sure you know there is no dearth of on this or other Boards.
If however, I observe patterns of behaviour/belief/approach/strategy whose premise are mistaken, either deliberately or unknowingly I will engage them perseveringly as I expect to be engaged in order to refine our ideas if we are truly sincere in deriving solutions to our many challenges with the benefit of input by others, Good, Bad, or Ugly (NOT INDIFFERENT mind you). As you often say; Communication, Communication, Communication. A mantra which I also believe strongly.
Finally Sylva, You stated affirmatively:
quote: "Be assured of my good faith..."
Now it may appear there is not an iota of good faith in your approach as you have subsequently stated:
quote: "If you bring the topic back, you may not get any answer from me..."
All because I demanded a sincere explanation from you in order to address a perceived wrong which you not only saw fit to invent, but to judge and forgive without the input of those you held responsible?.
Go back and read your post and be sincere to yourself. Conveniently hiding behind "IDEAS" is certainly not a panacea to a commitment toward: Communication, Communication, Communication.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
If una like, make una form aeroplane with north. E no go help una. No be so una carry Ekwueme comot, Sege put am for dust. Una carry Ojukwu comot, Sege put am for dust. Who una go carry comot now? Hahaha!
Posts: 213 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Perhaps one of the free speech experts in this forum will explain the value of having a clown like Bamidele on this board. Frankly, I think Bamidele is here to lower the quality of debates here.
Posts: 162 | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:"We used a methodically orthodox proactivity to prepare for the envisaged problems. We started preparing for this elections about a year ago. We envisaged that both the political parties, the political class, INEC and hoodlums in the society would come up with various degrees of problems and prepared to tackle them as they come. IG reads riot act over Assembly poll results
Ukaobasi is one of the most persuasive contributors. He usually writes in a simple way understood by most. Hence my surprise that he got involved in this bro-sis thing. Just when I was wondering what impertinent as used by Blessing meant, Ukaobasi comes up with disingenuous to neutralise it! My friends, its time to move on. I am sure that if simpler words had been used, we wouldn’t find ourselves sounding like Tafa Balogun.
As for the value of having a barmy dele as a contibutor, I suggest that we need someone to help us understand ICD10 category F80.0.
Ok, that's not the best example of writing in a simple manner! But then barmy is not your simple, middle-of-the-road clown.
Posts: 621 | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
I certainly commended you for the peaceful handle, applied to that issue, without any grudge. I hope we can now continue with our discussions, as I know you contribute intelligently to threads. Let’s bury this hatchet.
Sis Blessing.
___________________ IGBO AMAKA Posts: 79 | From: Porthacourt | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
Thank you for the compliments and for breaking the ice. Its certainly always easy to get carried away and take onesself too seriously under certain circumstances without realizing a steady decline to pettiness.
On the issue of big and confusing words, I havent seen any African (especially Biafranigerian) who like a consistent kleptomaniac saw a big word they never liked.
I've been seeing big words flung around recklessly and I did'nt say a thing. I now finally make a move to unleash mine, and you catch me red handed. Injustice!
Blessing. Thank you. But if CSE and others had'nt vigorously held mye shokoto, you woul haf see the redness of mye heye.
I think I lived in Lagos too long folks.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
My contribution to each thread or post is always specific, they are not necessarily contradictory. As I have told Ukaobasi, my contributions could at times be wrongly understood, but are made in good faith. I remember suggesting that Biafra wait a little before we can go on with the discussion of the topic. I do not remember whether what you posted confirmed exactly what he said. I did not apologize to Biafra because I did not tell him that the didn't receive a phone call from home. I mentioned somewhere on this board that white people, french in particular generate and imitate people's voices. So, I used to verify information when I can. Ojukwu, in one of his public speeches warned of people who say that they are Igbo because they speak Igbo language.
It is always good to take into consideration other people's experiences. So I did not feel that I offended Biafra. I think he did not feel offended either, otherwise he would have told me on this borard or through a PM.
I replied to Ukaobasi the way I felt most appropriate. My opinion is that in as much as Nigerian/African leaders have their own share of blame, we should give the west their own share as well. I do not say so just like that, that was why I give examples to buttress my points. I said that: 1) French intelligence, among others commit atrocities on black people: oppression, murder, using their women to eliminate black people, attacking black people all over Europe and beyond, antagonizing black children with their African parents,etc 2) that it is better for black people to avoid white-black marriages or having children together 3) to speak out each time atrocities are committed against blacks to avoid other blacks falling into the same trap. I quoted Nazi anecdote somewhere on this board.
4) that French people attack all the black race because some refused their women, they accuse those black of not liking women as if the only women on earth are white women. Black people do not attack neither their women nor their men. If white people have any reasons for attacking people, they should limit it to themselves. Black should oppose to that.
5) French intelligence do the same thing in Africa, including in Nigeria. They were behind the terrorist attack at UNN two years ago. 6) Africans should be discouraged to leave that continent. 7) White people block communication between Africans in diaspora and those in Africa(mails, phone, etc) 8) etc
Blacks have to confront white people when and if necessary. Black children should be informed as white people do to theirs, and they should be informed that they have the possibility to move to Africa if they judge it necessary.
I know that some people are still married or befriending white women. The Black race should not be sacrificed because some are living in Europe or in America. The essential is to make the situation known to everbody, adults as well as children. It is the best way to protect ourselves, not by keeping quiet or keeping them secret. If anybody decides not to take them into consideration, then they should not blame anybody or say had I known.
As concerns our problems at home, the solution remains the same: communication communication communication. Secondly, by know we suppose to know how to collect information or proofs. To accuse someone of rigging elections, we need proofs, to accuse Igbo governors of murder, bribery, etc, we need proofs. So, we should be able to take pictures, note down dates of important events, keep objects, etc, because we will need them in the future. If Nigeria soldier or police attacks someone, we need to keep some elements of proof. This information gathereing or proofs can be explained to the population through communication.
Instad of complaining about our leaders, we should be suggesting some ways of building a strong Igbo organization. I gave some possible solutions on the building of a strong cohesive Ohanaeze to represent Igbo interest. Eastern governors did ot back Ekwueme because of the absence of that strong organization mentioned above.
quote:Believe it or not; until we have Igbos as leaders who are Igbo first and then Nigerian second like Ejike Mbanu, Akanu Ibiam, Micheal Okpara and Mbakwe amongst others were, Igbos and Igboland will continue to be the LAST, vis-a-vis Nigeria's socio-political and economic politics.
The above quote is an example of why Igbo/Nigeriam/Africa problems remain unsloved because the causes of our problems are not well determined.
The real situation or problem is that The Igbo have no leaders. Those people you named are no Igbo leaders because we did not appoint them to represent us. If you like, they are struggling to survive like you and me, and at the same time, from time to time defend our interst. They are not Igbo leades because Obasanjo apointed them to their posts, so they are serving their boss. That was one of the reasons some of them did not support Ekwueme's candidacy.
But some of them can also be Igbo leaders, but we need to appoint them. We need to be able to determine who will be the governor, who will be at the senate, etc. Then if they did not perform, we can call them back or replace them. That is when they become Igbo leaders. Some of those governors might have supported Ekwueme, but they felt that they are not numerous enough to make his election happen. So, there is a lot of work to be done to convince the majority of the Igbo that we should all vote for candidates chosen by Ohanaeze in order to be more relevant in nigeria. I suppose that everybody on this board understands that, otherwise we can go through it in a separate thread. That would permit us to explain to others, and so on.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Quote: -------------------------------------------------- "Those people you named are no Igbo leaders because we did not appoint them to represent us."---Sylva. --------------------------------------------------
Again you are wrong, DEAD WRONG. Without wasting yours and my time, among those four reknowed Igbo politicians I mentioned in my last post, let me use just two to butress why you are either uninformed or you simply didn't make your research, and if you did, you got the wrong information.
For instance, Dr. Sam Onunaka Mbakwe who was governor of the then Imo State whose passion and love for his people would cause him to sometimes shed tears (I mean genuine tears), hence was thus known as "the crying governor" was overwelmingly VOTED twice by the PEOPLE of the old Imo State and was not "appointed" by either Obasanjo (Obasanjo was not in power when Mbakwe was governor) nor by Shehu Shagari was Nigeria's civilian president between 1979 to 1983 when Mbakwe was governor of Imo State. So how and where did you get your Obasanjo sactioned story from?
Late Micheal Okpara for instance was the Premier of the old East Central Region and was not "appointed" by Obasanjo either. Judging from how he was able to turn the Eastern government around with proceeeds from Palm oil, there's no doubt that the Eastern Region and the Igbos in general had a TRUE Iggbo leader in the person of Micheal Okpara. Can you compare all that Okpara achieved with just palm oil with what the CONFUSED south eastern governors are doing now?
I think you need to do more research to really abrase where Ndigbo's present problems started before suggesting "solutions." Because judging from your argurment that others are responsible for our problems to denying the likes of Mbakwe their DESERVED recognition that their action when they were in office (by the mandate of the PEOPLE) showed what and how one could manage being GOOD IGBO and at same time be a GOOD NIGERIAN as an IGBO LEADER makes your "solutions" begging for PRACTICAL solutions.
Maybe the best way to do that is to tell us what makes the likes of Iwuanyawu & co who lead the present Ohananeze better "Igbo leaders" than the Mbakwes whom I mentioned.
BTW, who, when, where and how are the so-called "leaders" of Ohaneze voted? Since they are more or less self-appointed and annointed "leaders" how could you or anyone make them or want us to recognize them as "leaders" when NO REGION in Igboland voted for them in a free and fair election, in which the "oha" (the people) where participators?
What I am saying in a nutshell is that it is only when the Igbo masses (the oha) are given the room to choose their desired representatives in all tiers of government and the real Igbo-at-heart leaders like Mbakwe emerges and then decide to form an umbrella organization like Ohaneze (or whatever name they chose) will anyone take such a body serious. As for now, all the 419ners who parade themselves as "Igbo leaders" are a disgrace not only to any well-meaning Igbo but also to the black race as a whole.
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
the southeast do not need any alliances. all it needs is to define its own goals and actively pursue those goals. enough of being beautiful brides to all and sundry - make your own rainbow!!
Posts: 33 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
quote:Believe it or not; until we have Igbos as leaders who are Igbo first and then Nigerian second like Ejike Mbanu, Akanu Ibiam, Micheal Okpara and Mbakwe amongst others were, Igbos and Igboland will continue to be the LAST, vis-a-vis Nigeria's socio-political and economic politics- Nwa Aro
The above statement in whch you cited Ejike Mbanu and co as examples in the past, is intended for the future, starting from now. This is indicated in your statement by the word "since". Obasanjo is the legitimate president of Nigeria till 29th May running. And since 1999, he has been the one that nominates governors, etc in Nigeria. I used Obasanjo in my last post to explain the situation today.
I retain what I have said, with very little additions, which in fact do not change fundamentally the sense contained in my last post: 1) As from now onwards, we should call someone our leader if we can choose him/her within Ohanaeze to run for any elections in ala Igbo, call on all Igbo to vote and elect him/her.
2) This means that we can replace him/her whenever he/she ceases to perform.
3) As I have said earlier at the beinning of this thread, and supported by Manpiki, we do not need any alliance. What we need is to speak with one voice and then negotiate with other regions in Nigeria.
4) The danger of foreign interference in ala Igbo, Nigeria, Africa is real. What we do is to exchange those information, at times in difficult situations so that nobody would say that they did hear it coming. I equally made reference to the way it could affect those in diaspora. It is time for change.
5) I made a detailed proposal as how to organize Ohanaeze through the establishment of a charter, election of members, financing the organisation, etc. The proposal, if applied, would block any external interference or sabottage.
6) anybody can modify the ohanaeze proposal, propose news solutions, communicate them to everyone and then apply them. We all know that nothing comes alone, we must have an input to make it happen.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
UKAOBASI, My proposals concerning the organization of Ohanaeze had been detailed in this thread. Any modifications or new proposals or agreement are highly welcome.
As concerns your contributions before my registration, essentially regarding the way forward for Ndi Igbo, you may resume they in few lignes.
The idea here is not to agree or disagree with proposal, but to express them. The next step would be to list some proposals and then carry out a vote to decide which one to follow. This means that even if we do not agree with the chosen solution, we must support it since chosen by the majority. That is how democracy works.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Sylva: UKAOBASI, The idea here is not to agree or disagree with proposal, but to express them. The next step would be to list some proposals and then carry out a vote to decide which one to follow. This means that even if we do not agree with the chosen solution, we must support it since chosen by the majority. That is how democracy works.
Sylva,
Thanks for the invitation.
I suppose it doesnt hurt every now and then to go off on whimsical flights of fancy, as in "That is how democracy works" If I may ask (and not to burst the bubble) what democracy? BNW's or Nigeria's?
Its important I ask that question because of the percieved audience (fellow democracy practitioners) before whom we proffer these so-called ideas/solutions for democratic voting and selection, and in what context? i.e had we (Myself, yourself, and others) previously setup modalities by which we propose, debate, adopt and implement solutions? On whose behalf? and with whose mutual agreement?
What is the guarantee that what solution we proffer would not simply be viewed as the ramblings of a couple of ants (no apologies to Okadigbo for such rude remark in reference to the great Zik)
Please dont get me wrong. am not trying to project cynicsm, but if you can answer that question, I'll be glad to continue, just out of respect if anything else.
I must say though that amidst much incoherent and meaningless static, many of your other ideas are very refreshing, original, creative, and workable, so as such I would even move to adopt them without debate on the basis that it is altogether fitting to accord due credit where credit is due.
You still never answered the questions I asked you before, and brushing them aside just wont do, no matter that I may humor you and ride into the sunset of bigger and better things at your behest.
One final point though, and it is a favor I ask you with humility: Please make a point to check up on the archives to dig up past threads that may relate to what you wish to discuss. The Administrator has given us and duly maintains for us a killer of an archive. To open up new threads willy nilly just to pour out momentarily inspired ideas no matter how wierd all in the name of solutions and without context to existing efforts just means that each time a new member comes in we must reinvent the wheel all over again.
You are a very prolific typist and the sheer volume of postings and new threads that end up repeating the same thing is downright overwhelming.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
quote: If I may ask (and not to burst the bubble) what democracy? BNW's or Nigeria's?
Its important I ask that question because of the percieved audience (fellow democracy practitioners) before whom we proffer these so-called ideas/solutions for democratic voting and selection, and in what context? i.e had we (Myself, yourself, and others) previously setup modalities by which we propose, debate, adopt and implement solutions? On whose behalf? and with whose mutual agreement?
I will remind you we are discussing Igbo affair: whether or not to seek alliance with other nations in Nigeria.
Secondly, I define the aim of my participation on this forum: to contribute to the betterment of Ndi Igbo in the first place(that is where I belong even if Nigeria ceases to exist) and then Nigeria.
When I use the term democracy, I mean a system which permits us(Ndi Igbo) to arrive at a polled decision. It is not fundamentally different from what obtains elsewhere, the difference is that we apply it to Igbo concerns.
Examples of decisions that could be made: 1) writing a letter to Ikemba, telling him what the a group of Igbo in diaspora(BNW members for example) wish to be done in the present situation in Nigeria.
2) doing the same thing as above in the case of cancellation of the elections and that APGA is in charge of all the states in the East. The idea is not that they adapt our proposals verbatim, but to have another point of view. 3) send a written proposal on the organisation of Ohanaeze, 4) etc
But in order to write the above letters, we can poll the opinion of the Igbo in this forum. After the letter is written, we will poll again to validate the content. I do not think we need the permission of BNW to do so. Everything is possibly if we have the determination.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Roll 2]](graemlins/roll2.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
