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Invite Mugabe to summit, say South Africans By Tim Butcher, Africa Correspondent (Filed: 17/09/2003)
quote:South Africa's President Thabo Mbeki appeared determined to split the Commonwealth over Zimbabwe yesterday by insisting that Robert Mugabe should be invited to its December summit.
The move came a day after Australia said Nigeria, which will host the summit, had accepted London and Canberra's view that Mr Mugabe should be barred.
President Mbeki's spokesman, Bheki Khumalo, attacked Australia for using "megaphone diplomacy".
"We are going to engage with Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo as the host of the summit so that an invitation will be extended to President Mugabe," he said.
"Invitations will be extended by (Nigerian) President Obasanjo, not by the Commonwealth.
"Our view is that the Commonwealth imposed the maximum penalty on Zimbabwe by suspending it for one year in March last year. We do not understand this business of Australia saying Zimbabwe is still excluded.
"I mean, sanctions have been imposed against Zimbabwe now for a number of months with no result at all and we don't think that using megaphone diplomacy will work."
South Africa's stand is particularly divisive since it would contravene the basic ground rules of the 54-nation grouping, which requires a summit decision before Zimbabwe can be re-admitted to the Commonwealth.
Mr Khumalo's comments prompted an immediate rebuttal by John Howard, Australia's Prime Minister, who said the Commonwealth Secretariat, which enjoys the backing of all members including South Africa, agreed on Mr Mugabe's ban.
It is the latest intervention by the South African leader on behalf of the Mugabe regime. Last year Mr Mbeki attacked "white supremacists" within the Commonwealth who dared criticise the collapse of law and order in Zimbabwe.
Diplomats said Mr Mbeki risks splitting the Commonwealth along black/white lines and jeopardises foreign investment in South Africa by western businessmen.
Heavily armed police descended on the offices of Zimbabwe's only independent daily newspaper yesterday and began seizing computers and other equipment.More than 50 officers threatened the managers of the Daily News with arrest if they obstructed the seizure.
16 September 2003: Nigeria delivers summit ultimatum to Mugabe 12 June 2003: Commonwealth snub to Mugabe 9 March 2002: Mbeki attacks 'racist' Blair 2 March 2002: Ministers refuse to kick out Mugabe
South Africa and other african countries should boycott the Summit in Nigeria. Additionally South africans better rcover their lands with or without Mbeki. And now!
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Knowing the agbero Obasanjo, he will dance to the tune of his masters even at the point of overwhelming nullification of the idea by the rest African nations.
Again, you are right, Africans should wash their hands off Obasanjo and his European tailored conference.
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Boy Ajasco, Unlike Mugabe and Mbeki who fought for the liberation of their countries from colonial occupation, Obasanjo did not fight for the partial independence that Nigeria enjoys today. Consequently he does not seem to understand what his colonial masters are capable of. Yet it is a matter of understanding our history.
For the above reasons, I do not thing Obasanjo can mislead the leaders from southern part of Africa who understand better the Europeans.
If the informed Africans all over the world make their voices heard, it would go a long way to supporting that of Mbeki and preventing the imperialist from doing nonsense in Africa.
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2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Again, you are right, Africans should wash their hands off Obasanjo and his European tailored conference..............Boy Ajasco
On what ground when they are under contract to make the African continent a better place? I don't think it's a better strategy to boycott the conference when a whole lot is at stake.
quote:If the informed Africans all over the world make their voices heard, it would go a long way to supporting that of Mbeki and preventing the imperialist from doing nonsense in Africa......Sylvia
I beg to disagree and I don't think so, sir! First, you must bear in mind Mbeki is a recipient of Western education and Mugabe's Zimbabwe has not been any better since its post-colonial era.
My name is Mota Ogallala, the proud native American.
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quote:Again, you are right, Africans should wash their hands off Obasanjo and his European tailored conference..............Boy Ajasco
On what ground when they are under contract to make the African continent a better place? I don't think it's a better strategy to boycott the conference when a whole lot is at stake.
Mota, What contract are you talking about? Who gave contracts to who? What is at stake is the security of Africans? But if you do not have enough experience to understand what is at stake, you better make it know so that I explain them to you.
quote:
quote:If the informed Africans all over the world make their voices heard, it would go a long way to supporting that of Mbeki and preventing the imperialist from doing nonsense in Africa......Sylva
I beg to disagree and I don't think so, sir! First, you must bear in mind Mbeki is a recipient of Western education and Mugabe's Zimbabwe has not been any better since its post-colonial era.
Your opinion was as follow: 1) You did not agree with me 2) you did not think it was so
then I waited for for your reasons or argument, but I had the following: 1) Mbeki had western education. My view: And so what? If western educated Mbeki said that Mugabe has to be invited to the summit, I do not understand how his western education plays a role there.
2) Mugabe's Zimbabwe has not been any better since its post-colonial era My view: Just like above, you failed to substantiate your claim; what had Zimbabwe that other african countries did not have.
For some time now, developed countries used to outsource jobs to developing countries. How many of them went to Africa? Africa has been used as battle field, where the different tribes have been antagonized, where all the little efforts made there has been deliberately destroyed by foreign intelligence agents, etc. They can no longer deceive anybody because we know as much as they do. They can no longer use any rubbish to deceive Africans because there are many citizens of that continent capable of proving them wrong. If you have any questions or arguments to support any point of view, please make them explicit, we have very little time to waste with people who do not understand anything or people who deliberately decided not to understand anything.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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[QOUTE]For some time now, developed countries used to outsource jobs to developing countries. How many of them went to Africa?....Sylva[/quote]
This is the first time you have made sense on these boards, I just can not understand why the Western word will not go to places like Nigeria and outsource. Nigeria has enough Universities to compete with the likes of China, Mexico, India and so on and the Southern part, SouthEast in particular has the work culture to go with these manpower.
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quote:This is the first time you have made sense on these boards,----Ednut
I have always made sense in all that I say, the question I continue to ask myself is how you manage not to understand them.
In fact not only that the West do not wish the inustrialization of Africa, but some European countries spend time destroying the little efforts African countries have made, using their intelligence agents.
They are only intersted in African land and natural resources. Yet America played a huge role in the industralization of Europe after the Caucasian wars mistakenly called world wars. Yet America did not take an land in Europe. Did you hear the West ask for land in India, China, Mexico and other countries where they outsource job?
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:I continue to ask myself is how you manage not to understand them.
Well Sylva, the first law of communication is that if you are unable to reach your audience, it must be your fault. Something must be wrong with the way you are conveing your message.
The only reason Africa is where it finds itself today is b/c the Europeans handed off Africa.
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No Ednut, you need to think more deeper than that to understand African problems. As somebody rightly pointed out, watching a politician is like watching a magician, attention is drawn to one hand while the other, the one doing the important job remains unnoticed.
Coming back to the subject of the thread, why would white people prefer to farm in Africa instead of in Europe where agriculture is subsidized? There many many questions like the above. But the first thing is to keep white people out of African land for the security of the latter. You know the history as much as me.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
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Aficans do not know what to do with the land it has. The world needs that land to feed places like Ethiopia and the Sudan and if it takes the whites to make these present wasteland productive and useful for something else other than war fronts, so be it.
Why do the whites want to farm in Africa instead of Europe? Well, Sylva it maybe b/c they can farm year round in Africa unlike in Europe and labor will be cheaper.
___________________ Feel me? Ofu onye ana asi unu abia go. - Ednut Igbo-American . www.airamericaradio.com visit her. Posts: 2447 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Ednut: Aficans do not know what to do with the land it has.
And Iraq do not know what to do with its oil, that is is why the country is under occupation. By the way, why are not in Iraq to protect the oil fields?
quote:Originally posted by Ednut: [QB] The world needs that land to feed places like Ethiopia and the Sudan and if it takes the whites to make these present wasteland productive and useful for something else other than war fronts, so be it.
Who is the world? No Ednut. It is a problem of greed, selfishness and imperialism. Mugabe understood it very well. Another problem is that of security. White imperialist are not trustworthy, they have always massacred the owners of the land they occupy(Indians, South Africans, the Aborigines, etc) and we cannot afford to make the same mistakes. We have to keep them out of african land in order to uproot them easily. Black people do not have free land in Europe.
quote:Originally posted by Ednut: [QB] Why do the whites want to farm in Africa instead of Europe? Well, Sylva it maybe b/c they can farm year round in Africa unlike in Europe and labor will be cheaper.
This is one of the reasons I told you that you do not understand anything. How many seasons are there in Africa? Could you tell use what irrigation is used for?
As regards labour, the west should outsource some of the jobs they have to Africa as they do in India and other countries. Blacks have worked in sugar plantations, built skyscrappers, etc. No real black person would wish africans to do the same jobs again, this time inside Africa.
Finally,
quote:The history taught in our schools is scandalous. We grew up believing that Columbus actually discovered America. We still celebrate Columbus Day. Columbus was after one thing only - gold. As the natives were showering him with gifts and kindness, he wrote in his diary, "They do not bear arms ... They have no iron ... With 50 men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want." Columbus is the perfect symbol of US foreign policy to this day. Http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,813189,00.html
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:This is one of the reasons I told you that you do not understand anything. How many seasons are there in Africa? Could you tell use what irrigation is used for? ...........Sylva
So tell me ma'am, how are you going to irrigate a frozen tundra in the middle of Norway or in Siberia? Do you plan to use hot water?
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quote:Originally posted by Ednut: The world needs that land to feed places like Ethiopia and the Sudan ---
quote:Originally posted by Ednut:
quote:This is one of the reasons I told you that you do not understand anything. How many seasons are there in Africa? Could you tell use what irrigation is used for? ...........Sylva
So tell me ma'am, how are you going to irrigate a frozen tundra in the middle of Norway or in Siberia? Do you plan to use hot water?
Either the Europeans want to feed Ethiopians and Sudanese or they want to feed themselves because their land is frozen. But it can't be the two at the same time. I am not used to wasting my time, it confirms once more that you are very ignorant. When I joined this board, I once got annoyed with some of your views thinking that they were intentionally made to upset people. It does not seem to be so. Those who had been checked out by Mugabe were neither from Norway, nor those whose turn will soon come in South Africa. All real Africans need to do is to inform the African population of the danger of allowing criminals occupy their lands. The former will know to protect their heritage.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:why would white people prefer to farm in Africa instead of in Europe……Sylva
quote:Well, Sylva it maybe b/c they can farm year round in Africa unlike in Europe and labor will be cheaper……..Ednut
quote: This is one of the reasons I told you that you do not understand anything. How many seasons are there in Africa?
Well Sylva, you are off point. Do you even read what you are responding do or are you in such a haste to go gong ho on the whites that you just can’t articulate?
quote: Either the Europeans want to feed Ethiopians and Sudanese or they want to feed themselves because their land is frozen……Sylva
Sylva, We are not here to talk about the land in Europe but the land in Africa and the best way to use it for the benefit of the world. Now most of Africa can not feed themselves and needs all the help it can get from Europe, America, Asia or whoever. Look, if not for Europe, the coal in my home town of Enugu will still be underground, the oil that helped you to get to Europe, will not be drilled, and do I need to break it down for you, some? I ain't mad at you doo, ain't your fault.
quote: All real Africans need to do is to inform the African population of the danger of allowing criminals occupy their lands. … Sylva
You are more dangerous to Africans than most Europeans, and while we are at it, why are you not based in your beloved African?
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Ednut, You do not know anything about africa nor about African problems. By mere reading you, I have the impression of reading foreigners who ask whether there are houses in Africa or those who count only on the propaganda from the media. You can never deceive any African with these types of propaganda.
In Nigeria and other parts of Africa, the people votes do not count. It is therefore wrong to say that Africa needs this or that too simply because the foreign imposed dictators are working for their masters. We have to change all those things by infprming the masses, so that they won't be deceived any longer. If any African asks you for food, do not give them any.
I am sure that most Africans have learnt a lot from the "liberation of the Iraqis" and there is no doubt that they would make good use of that foreign experience.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ekpo: The excuse for not inviting Mugabe to the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting CHOGM was that Mugabe rigged elections in Zimbabwe. But, in the host country for the CHOGM, we know that the Commonwealth also found that Obasanjo rigged elections. So, who is fooling whom?
We should speak out to inform the masses who will in turn protect their resources, lands and rights. It is our duty.
They even decided to arrest Nwodo at this point in time to divert people's attentions from the absence of mugabe in Nigeria. Mugabe is the only person who has done something tangible for that continent.
Recently there was article on how the politicians in Zimbabwe monopolize the seized land, the article being written by the westerners.
But we are waiting to be reminded by the west how they massacred Africans, Aborignes of Australia, etc to appropriate their lands in the first place. The game is over.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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This one that you seem excited to show that picture, I hope that Grandpa is in the picture is not your dad. Soon now you will start telling your friends in England that you are the Prince of Nigeria.
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This Cynics view and sneaking suspicion of the Commonwealth
a. The Commonwealth was formed to lend relevance to Britain after the 2nd world war when it was evident that the US saved Britains butt from the German army. b. The Commonwealth was formed to corral former colonies for continued exploitation and uninterrupted access. c. As Third world nations leaders and "kings" (some PHD's) line up to kiss asss (the queens royal), dont they ever wonder: can I ever stop myself? am I cursed? what the heck am I doing here? why do I still feel so little (like some National Geographic freak)? How dit it ever come to this? why should I be made to be feeling lucky to be granted her audience, why not her, lucky to be given mine?
and here's some cosmetic civics questions this cynical layman really wants to know.
1. Name three (3) things the Commonwealth ever did for you. How much of the Commonwealth's wealth have you ever tasted?.
2. How come the whole "Commonwealth" was collectively aggrieved when Argentina tried to take back its property; the Faulkland islands.
3. How come the Bakassi peninsula and parts of Borno and other villages were given to non "commonwealth" states with "commonwealth silence?.
4. In whose real interest has the Commonwealth been? Who has gained the most?
5. What has the Commonwealth done for the people of the NigerDelta? What have they done to curtail an ecological degradation against which several Exxon Valdez oil spills cannot compare?
6. What is the French equivalent of the Commonwealth?
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What exactly don't you see or understand? Ask me all the questions you can think of.
"watching foreign affairs is like watching a magician; the eye is drawn to the hand performing the dramatic flourishes, leaving the other hand - the one doing the important job - unnoticed" ----David K. Shipier.
All, Mugabe understood everything. Very soon, things will fall apart and most africans will join him.
The problem is that most African foreign-made leaders are cowards, they are afraid of their masters. But that is going to change because the masses can no longer be deceived.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
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Ukaobasi: Some of the questions you asked are questions I put to some of my mouthing 'patriotic' Nigerian friends, to which none has so far been able to name just one reason why the need for the so-accled Commonwealth and why Nigeria should remain a member. There's no gain saying the fact that the millions of dollars Obasanjo's purposeless government wasted in hosting this JAMBOREE would have gone a long way to better the living standard of ordinary Nigerians who over 90% live off less than a dollar a day.
While the Queen and other of Obasanjo's guests are dinning and living it in the choicest part of Abuja, it is important to remind them that many ordinary Nigerians were made to lose their livelihood by way of their shops and houses being demolished because the authorities in Abuja consider them 'illegal structures.' But the truth of the matter is that Obasanjo does not want his guests to see the REAL NIGERIA and meet the real Nigerians, who most live in eye-soring squalor arising from many years of deprivation and economic hardship.
What a great way to share the the UNCOMMON Commonwealth's wealth!
Quote: --------------------------------------- "The problem is that most African foreign-made leaders are cowards, they are afraid of their masters."---Sylva. --------------------------------------
Sylva: On this I totally agree with you. I must also add that until the foreign-created empires (Nigeria included) are somehow remodelled to fit to the indigenous peoples taste and expectations (which is exactly what the Brits are fighting against by creating this Commonwealth RUBBISH) I see Africa of all the continents in the world producing most of Washington's, Paris's, London's, Berlin's, ERRAND-BOYS, cum 'leaders.'
It's sad that while people from other continents (like Asia) fought and won independence of mind and brain (which is the first step toward real independence), we Africans on the contrary fought and won FLAG INDEPENDENCE and used deranged minds and brain-washed brains to hoist the flags thereafter.
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Our first steps must be towards communication with and information of the masses. This is because our force is built on unity, without which we are powerless.
At the same time those who divid us in order to rule are also at work.
Let me put our problems in another: Mr Blair said that Mugabe is not democratic enough. But mind you that he was not talking of black people, he was talking of foreign whites in Zimbabwe. For Mr blair, as long as Mugabe does not give English people Zimbabwean land, there is no democracy. I hope everyone understands it. And this is not acceptable, no white person should occupy any land in Africa without buying them or taking them on lease. In the UK or Europe, black people do not have land there unless they buy them.
If we speak out thereby informing African masses in Africa and a
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