We all see that the war in Iraq has entered a new phase – the guerilla phase. It was the very fear of this quagmire that led Bush Sr. to over rule those who wanted him to go to Baghdad in 1991. Today, eighteen US soldiers died and more than 17 were injured after a surface-to-air missile shot down an AH 47 Chinook helicopter carrying the soldiers to the Saddam Hussein International Airport in Baghdad.
So much for “Mission Accomplished;” more like Mission Impossible!
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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United States will vanquish all these religious efulefus if I must borrow words from this site.
Btw, there is no such thing as Saddam hussein airport anymore.
America has sacrificed lives for the betterment of the world before. It is nothing new.
___________________ Emotional Commentaries most often do not solve problems. Being rational makes for intelligence. Posts: 21 | From: Ekpoma, Nigeria | Registered: Feb 2003
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Unfortunately, scenes like this are the only thing that will put an end to the cowboy mentality that sent Bush into Iraq. Posts: 67 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Bomboy G.W. Was a spoiled rich child who never learned how notget every toy he ever wanted. Now he is wasting young lives in Irag just because he never learned how to understand the word no, baby you can,t have it.
quote: America has sacrificed lives for the betterment of the world before. It is nothing new.
But here there is a difference:
* invading a country without UN resolution * not finding the WMD which was/is the pretext for going there * refusing to leave the country since no WMD has been found * lying to the US citizens by trying to link the Iraqi invasion with september 11 * name them...
since the even the war
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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When you often write without a 10-20 in these days of Patriot Acts, bear in mind you too can be MIA. It is now a fragile world my friend, so be careful on what you write and what you say in public.
___________________ Umaru Ibrahim Posts: 56 | From: Portsmouth, England | Registered: Jul 2002
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Those highlights of Sylvia are hot round-table discussions by the main news media on Sundays. It no big news here.
Posts: 288 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2003
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If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. Critics may be right when they predicted a quagmire, a Somalia-like debacle, a rising of the Arab "street" that would be "a storm from hell," and of course, another Vietnam. For sure, they have predicted with near certainty.
___________________ TRUTH IS THE ONLY WAY Posts: 51 | From: Montevideo, Uruguay, Latin America | Registered: Oct 2002
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George W. has played into the hands of fanatical islamic hoodlums who have long asked for an open bloodbath with the "great satan." Whether this is going be a replay of deadly Vietnam before someone gets the hint and bring the boys home is an open question.
[ November 04, 2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Amadi O. ]
___________________ achieve Biafra and show the difference Posts: 643 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Nov 2002
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The quagmire is now scary. Could somebody tell Bush to start witdrawing American troops so more lives could be saved? I have cousins and nephews fighting another man's war.
___________________ Kofi Quansah Posts: 41 | From: Highland Park, Michigan, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Those soldiers in Iraq are fighting for the Bush family and for oil. They are not fighting for the US. Just a little while ago, two of them were blown to death by an improvised explosive device, IED. How ironic! The young soldiers were told to worry about WMD, which we now know Iraq did not have.
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Umaru Ibrahim: Sylva: When you often write without a 10-20 in these days of Patriot Acts, bear in mind you too can be MIA.
Umaru,
I am not sure I understood well what you meant and I would like you to be more explicit.
quote:Originally posted by Umaru Ibrahim: It is now a fragile world my friend, so be careful on what you write and what you say in public.
I expected you to give your view on the thread, even if you comment on mine as well. But you commented on my views without giving yours. Giving one's opinion is never a crime,it is in fact dangerous not to do so.
I will remind you of the Nazi anecdote which I suppose you already know:
First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a coomunist
then they came for the jews and I did not speak out because I was not a jew
then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
next they came for the catholics and I did not speak out because I was not a catholic
then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
What you were preaching is exactly what the Arabs are doing, waiting to be weakened one by one. African countries have been doing the same thing: 1) allowing one person or few people to be enslaving them inside their countries, example Nigeria. 2) allowing themselves to be antagonized with Mugabe who rightly has taken back what is his. Britain is not in Africa. And like the Arabs, if african countries do nothing, then it would be their turn later: One after the other.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Unfortunately there is no end in sight for president George Bush's Iraqi mess with the ongoing series of rocket attacks and bloody suicide bombings that, along with killing and wounding U.S. troops, killed scores of Iraqis and wounded hundreds more upon the so-called ceasefire and acclaimed victory.
Now with the latest poll showing three out of five Iraqis want Iraqis left alone to work out a government for themselves, while only one in three want the U.S. and Britain to help make sure a viable and intact government is set up, there is no need for U.S. continuous occupation of Iraq.
Also, there is the charge that companies like Haliburton and Bechtel, who were awarded billions in no bid contracts for Iraq, are ripping off US taxpayers and the Iraqi people through overcharging, kickbacks and other corrupt practices. The war has turned out to be another resemblance of Vietnam--meaningless to the core.
Posts: 83 | From: Kirksville, Missouri, USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Now with the latest poll showing three out of five Iraqis want Iraqis left alone to work out a government for themselves...There is no need for U.S. continuous occupation of Iraq.
----------Mojo Long
You guys seem to be good at managing words without reality check. Was the war in Iraq justified? Of course, even having said that many times that it was justified for one particular reason: regime change. America fought for regime change, and it must be defended no matter what it takes. And there is a price to pay for it--the unfortunate terrorist attacks. It was in this same light when the whole world watched Obafemi Awolowo's initiated economic blockade desperately starved 200,000 Igbo infants and children to their death. Had the world intervened in Awo's gruesome acts, 200,000 innocent infants and children would not have perished.
It was also in the same light the world watched when a staggering 800,000 Tutsis were savagely butchered in Rwanda. So what's U.S. moral obligation? To leave the rape rooms and childrens prisons in Iraq under Saddam Husseine unattended? To ignore captives fed under industrial shredders? To watch women dragged off the streets to the torture houses? Give me a break!
quote:The war has turned out to be another resemblance of Vietnam--meaningless to the core.
---------------Mojo Long
Oh yeah? Well history is not gonna repeat itself this time around, and that's one of the reasons U.S. is not pulling out its troops soon from the troubled Middle East. "Out, out, out" and they left Vietnam, then what happened? Saigon: American allies paid in blood to tyrant murderers of which the consequences was very ominous. Never again!
Posts: 479 | From: The Universe | Registered: Jul 2001
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America is an unwanted occupying force in Iraq. If they are not driven out by the downing of Chinook helicopters, they will be driven out by the downing of Black hawks choppers. The blood of all those victims are in George Bush's hands.
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Na wah oh! Alarm still dey blow for Iraq. Ibi like say oga Bush don start something wey im no fit finish oh, as mallam mey suya don dey roast Yakee soldiers efryday oh! Make una dey hear oh:
Me I see "Black Hawk Down" wey kili peepl nyafunyafu for Somalia. Na im be say efrytin don dey dabaru as dey don dey turn Yankee soldiers into suya like say na Shagamu. Na real wah!
___________________ NA MY PAPA BORN ME Posts: 389 | From: Eugene, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2002
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I was wondering why the occupying force in Iraq started a brutal and atrocious campaign against innocent Iraqis; they called it "Operation Iron Hammer." We all know that the killing of US soldiers in the past did not spur Bush to declare any special operations or to escalate the conflict. The real reason for wiping out whole Iraqi villages became clear yesterday, when, like a thief through the night, George Bush Jr. made a sneaking entry into Saddam Hussein International Airport in Baghdad. Bush was too chicken to go beyond the airport; so, US soldiers were invited to meet him at the airport for turkey dinner. Then Bush crawled back into the plane and returned to the US. What a sissy!
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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I never had a stomach to get all bent out of shape about issues relating to the war in Iraq. My two cents worth of opinion is that Dubya was right to probe the possibility of links to Al- qaida, he was right to try to take advantage of the momentum of world sympathy given 9-11 to clear out and somewhat stabilize all the minefield areas of the middle East that nurtured and incubated the type of lawlessness that enabled wanton terrorist acts to occur unchecked all these years, the Chief culprits in this regard in my opinion and in order were:
Iran(home of Ayatollah Khomeini and a Persian/Islamic, mostly Shiite state with ethno/religious, animosity towards America and its sympathisers and fundamentalist religio-nationalistic aspirations as a major regional player)
Afghanistan(an unstable hotbed of internecine war, a product of the negative impact of the partition of Nations by colonial powers, the cold war, and the unresolved internal dynamics pitting religious fundamentalism against modern national identity, a schism that guarrantees perpetual instability. Used mostly as a practice ground and an impenetrably formiddable core of operations and planning by terrorists prior to recent invasion and occupation),
Syria(Home of Hafez Al-Assad the Syrian hawk, home of Hezbollah and a hideout of all manner of terrorist groups and their wanted leaders. A now checkmated but potential source of cataclysmic regional instability),
Pakistan(With its majority sympathetic Muslim Urdus and by virtue of its Muslim fundamentalist Pashtun population, dangerously powerful in their mountainous and inaccessible geographical locations given their numbers in the Pakistani millitary strata, and a smattering of other harmless and impotent religious groups, and given the dynamics of its formation as a nation),
Lebanon(by virtue as a proxy for Syria and Syrian mischief during the days of Hafez Al Assad and its location by Israel),
Iraq(only by virtue of its impenetrable facist totalitarianism, millitary equipment and brutality, and Saddams ability in times of desperation to whip up Arab/Islamic anti Israel anti America sentiments as a strategic buffer against unchecked and speedy incursion as we all just witnessed),
Palestinian areas(largely under the surveillance and management of Israel and a source of every excuse under under the sun to justify terrorism in the Middle East and around the world),
Yemen(a hotbed for religious fundamentalism largely fuelled by massive poverty, difficulty of access and internal unrest),
Sudan(birthplace of Al Mahdi who trounced the British with superior war tactics, home also of Gafar El- Nimeri its former totalitarian military leader. Currently at war with its Christian minority subjects and known for the sympathies and aspirations of its Muslim fundamentalist majority to demonstrate its relevance as part of the core Arab Islamic world),
Egypt(harboring a collection of largely disgruntled and very potent fanatical fundamentalist elements long supressed by Hosni Mubarak after the Murder of Anwar Sadat who signed a peace pact with Menachim Begin of Israel back in the day),
Libya(defanged by Reagan/Bush and home of Ghaddafi, we need say no more)
and at the bottom
Saudi Arabia(long considered a friend, but a hotbed for the rabid unwavering Wahbi fundamentalism which produced Osama Bin.. and his merry band of self sacrificing idiots)
All these coupled with a collection of sometimes unstable but latently terroristically volatile second and third tier Islamic influenced Nations ranging from Indonesia, Phillipines, to Jordan to the Berber states of North Africa minus Libya, to Mombassa in East Africa and a vast collection of aspiring states with Muslim populations who wish to assert political prescence and dominance by tacitly sympathising with terrorist causes in the name of Religion, Nationalism, and very laughably, Human rights.
Dubya was right to determine to halt the line of advance of terrorism which now began to use as staging areas, Western nations to which Muslims are domiciled, such as France, Germany, Italy, Argentina, Great Britain, USA, among others.
He was right to request that Right thinking World leaders including Muslim Nations and their peoples take a decisive stand for lawfulness or for terrorism or step aside and watch. Just think, such a condition and opportunity would never have been allowed during the cold war and the only world leader on whose shoulders it ever fell prior to that and post first world war to make such a daring and possibly unpopular decision was Winston Churchill when he correctly foresaw that giving in an inch to Hitler was just as good as turning in your weapons and nations in surrender to evil over good (despite my displeasure at the British imperialistic colonial and post colonial record in Africa), how right he was. So was Duya.
The question becomes how to go about it. Afghanistan presented a wonderful opportunity in that the Taliban had decided to harbor the very culprits responsible for the evil and affront that was 9-11. If the Soviet Union still existed and had become the sole superpower, or say China was the sole superpower, several nuclear weapons would have by now levelled Afghanistan and surrounding Nations for the crimes and affront of those few, of this, there is no doubt in my mind, in fact nations found to be even mildly sympathetic would by now be in the throes of epic misery, again of this there is absolutely no doubt in my mind, but America being America, with its powerful and moderating constitution (the same which attorney General Ashcroft is trying to manipulate to turn The US of A into a Republican facsist State) has to mull things over like a truly civilized and democratic Nation, and despite posessing the most powerful millitary in human history submits itself to the universal rule of law by tempering justice with the mercy of a well thought out surgical operation, calculated to inflict as low a collateral damage as possible, to this end it employs every amount of strategic pre and post operational planning available through high tech and low tech means to return order and sanity through Human and material sacrifice to a part of the world long defficient in that sanity and long known as a gravesite of defeat to even the most poerful of nations. The Taliban have been dislodged and many brave American lives lost so that Daud and me can sit here and post our opinions on the internet. Just think, what would Obasanjo and Idi Amin have done? lets not go there.
Yes how to go about it? America with its characteristic transparency has made it easy for its watchers to observe as it goes through its debates, to watch the mighty battles of the Secretaries of State and Defense; Powell and Rumsfeld, assistants Armitage and Wolfowitz; the methodical hawks, versus the instinctive fanatical hawks (even though one must sympathise with Rumsfeld for being how he is given that he was in the pentagon when the cowards struck and killed several of his wards) The mighty battles of the politicos jousting for power, but implementing democracy before our very eyes; Democrats vs Republicans, Moderates versus fanatics right or left, White appointees versus the new Black kids on the block; Rice and Powell, rightist media vs leftist media. Of these juxtapositions, win, lose, draw or cheat, democratic decisions and conclusions are hatched, arrived at, taken. How to Subdue Afghanistan with the least Collateral damage? How to extend the war to other middle-Eastern hotbeds of terrorism and what excuses to use? What level of animosity would it incur and how to contain it? What potential world-powers could step in to create a condition for World war and how to contain it? What the population at large would think knowing that their sons and daughters would be called upon to go and shed their blood? How to rally the population around the cause? How might it affect relationships within NATO alliance nations, UN nations, EU nations NAFTA nations? What kind of preceedents would be being set? How many previous policies existing when there were dual superpowers would have to be broken and reshaped to address the current realities? How feasibly could a battle successfully be taken to the enemy and how might it affect neighbouring countries? What nations should strategically bear the brunt of attack in order to send a decisive message to all nations included in the list of terrorist incubating nations? What would a Muslim kid from an unjust Nation like Nigeria think about policies and approach?
Among many many many other important and critical questions. It is from these that the answer of how to go about achieving the vision is taken. of this question no answer is right hundred percent, there is always a cost; political, personal, economic, social, historical, you name it, but what must be done must be done, and so young American boys are sent out (some of them sons snd daughters of immigrants such as ourselves) when Daud is right many are blown to pieces so he can tell us he told us so. When he is wrong Iraqis are seen to be wanting a prolonged American stay so their nation can be rebuilt.
Which other nations Army having finished a war stays back to pick up the pieces and rebuild what it destroyed in victory? Think about this.
Yes Dubya may have erred in choosing WMD or Regime change as the best excuse to go into Iraq, Yes some information manipulation may have been employed to convince the American masses of a good justification for war, Yes Haliburton and its subsidiaries including Kellogs Brown and Root, connected as they are to the Presidency has displayed once again the penchant for cronyism and avaricious exploitation which gives capitalist oriented democratic economies a black eye, but all will agree that there is always an economic opportunity aspect to war and destruction, how they are managed is part and parcel of the price that must be paid or the glory that must be gained from a momentuous decision such as has been cast upon the shoulders of this current leader Dubya.
America is no doubt at war. it is performing excellently, gallantly, and sophisticatedly. Instead of leaning back in America in the comfort of our comfortable armchairs pointing out where America has failed, and celebrating as some seem to be doing when brave White, Black, Chicano, Asian American and other immigrant kids (some ours) have been felled in battle, let us spend more time reflecting on the fact that we are in limbo; Hausa's, Yoruba's, Igbo's, Ijaw's, Tiv's, Urhobos, Ibibio/Efiks, etc Christians and Muslims, failing woefully to realize our opportunities as Black people in an informed world to take destiny in our hands and right the wrongs of colonial artificial and unworkable National boundaries and entities such as the Nation you call "Nigeria" fabricated much like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, etc. doomed to perpetual fragile, third world and Pariah status, no matter how accomplished.
Instead of lining up like predictable spectators (it is said some are born to be players and others mere spectators)in regard to the war on the basis of our gut reactions and assumptions to big power vs underdog, Muslim vs Christian, Hyppocrite vs Virtuous, Republican leader vs third world despot, Western superpower vs third world underdog and a host of other categories wich unites or divides us without contributing anything to our own general sense of empowerment or outlook.
Instead of spectatoring, should'nt we consider more engagedly how we emmerge collectively and self-empoweredly from the wounds inflicted by divide and conquer colonialism that created an abberration such as the Geographical entity labelled "Nigeria" on the map, rather than conviniently carving out our place in the long queue of second guessers, on the basis of our individual gripes, to take swipes in the heat of the ongoing battles, at the only Nation whose people have mapped out their own course and know exactly how they expect to emmerge when the war is all fought and over?
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Dubya was right to probe the possibility of links to Al- qaida, he was right to try to take advantage of the momentum of world sympathy given 9-11 .... in this regard in my opinion and in order were:
quote:Syria ....
Pakistan ....
Lebanon ....
Iraq ....
Palestinian ....
Yemen ....
Sudan....
Egypt ....
Libya ....
Saudi Arabia
Only a confused person would think that George W was in Iraq to honestly "probe the possibility of links to Al- qaida." Unless one was using a dumb probe, there was more Al-Qaeda in each of the other countries than there were in Iraq before Bush went there.
Besides, Bush's ill-advised misadventures have nothing to do with fear of Islam. Bush is on a selfish mission for his family interests and certain vested oil interests. I hope that some of you Internet Biafrans are not so delusional that you would expect Bush to come down on your side when we already know that he is convinced that Nigerian Muslims could better serve his oil interests in Nigeria.
Ukaobasi, I am disappointed in you. Perhaps, you should tell us when Bush plans to start performing in the other countries that you listed, the exact same type of "[prob]ing" that he did in Iraq for "the possibility of links to Al- qaida." You guys are funny in your gullibility.
Posts: 449 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Ukaobasi, I am disappointed in you. Perhaps, you should tell us when Bush plans to start performing in the other countries that you listed, the exact same type of "[prob]ing" that he did in Iraq for "the possibility of links to Al- qaida." You guys are funny in your gullibility.
Daud,
I don't remember when you have ever been appointed in me as we have not engaged sustainably. As such your announcement of "disappointment" becomes a flattery of sorts which I shall endeavour henceforth to earn more of.
quote:Only a confused person would think that George W was in Iraq to honestly "probe the possibility of links to Al- qaida." Unless one was using a dumb probe, there was more Al-Qaeda in each of the other countries than there were in Iraq before Bush went there.
Make no mistake about it, I may be even more confused than you give me credit for. let the proof of the pudding however, reveal itself over time, in the eating.
quote:I hope that some of you Internet Biafrans are not so delusional that you would expect Bush to come down on your side when we already know that he is convinced that Nigerian Muslims could better serve his oil interests in Nigeria.
As I'm christened "Internet Biafran" (at least you honored that label by treating it as a noun) for posting my opinion regarding "quagmire in Iraq" I gratefully accept that identity and remind you our "internet al quaida freedom gladiators" to feel free to continue to use this "Internet Biafra" to vent out your frustrations in the peace and comfort of your computer screens, walking away from it, with nothing short of 100% victory from each near death and bravely sacrificial encounter.
As to Nigerian Moslems serving Bush's oil interests in Nigeria, a cursory review of all my postings on this board will reveal my consistent belief that your position is right. To the extent however that some internet referee or police is sitting down somewhere on behalf of Dubya, taking notes as to who said what and when on this board and how supportive of his cause were they, I leave the luxury of that imaginative flight of fancy to you. A question I could'nt resist asking would be: Where has that role of serving as an eager servant gotten "Muslim Nigeria" all this time? and why does your anger that that misuse and abuse of your eager services has no impact in America's decision and vision about its global interest rile you into ackward fits, vented conveniently at the "Internet Biafra" board?
Finally, aside from missing Iran, You rightly quoted me in the following statement:
quote:Dubya was right to probe the possibility of links to Al-qaida, he was right to try to take advantage of the momentum of world sympathy given 9-11 .... in this regard in my opinion and in order were:
You may however be expecting a literal translation if it did not occurr to you that my personal opinion is not the official position. If it were, then by that reasoning, the nations I stated would all have been candidates for attack and of neccessity therefore, in that exact order.
Shall I break it down for you? or shall I continue to languish in my own state of confusion? they say that only a mad man can understand perfectly another madman. If I labored to articulate my madness any further than I have, I'm afraid I would only leave you with the usual literal conclusion of the obvious:
Boy, that guy is plain mad!
For which you would no doubt pat yourself on the back for such profound wisdom.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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