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Quote: ---------------------------------------- "There is somethging to be said for a man who stayed in his country and lived in a hole after everything he had was taken from him. To me that is better than Ojukwu who ran away to Ivory Coast..."---Adekunle. -----------------------------------------
Adekunle: You must be the most stupid person that lives on mother earth to dare compare that beast from Iraq to an Ojukwu who stood up against you equally BEASTY NIGERIANS who went out to commit exactly the same crime Saddam is being accused of - mass murder and genocide. You bet if Saddam or anyone for that matter had stood up to fight against any country or race (as Ojukwu BRAVELY DID) because there was clear case of his fellow Iraqis being slaughtered like rams (as the Igbos were), no matter what happens to him thereafter, he would have remained my hero. Unfortunately, the reverse is the case here. While Ojukwu fought the likes of Obasanjo and the notorious Adekunle, Murtala Muhammed and co because they were out and did massacre the Igbos in their thousands, Saddam on the other hand slaughtered the Kurds and other of his fellow citizens whom he was supposed to protect. So now tell where is the comparison you vainly tried to make above between Ojukwu and Saddam? If you may, could you tell the world between you Nigerians and Ojukwu/Igbos who is guilty of mass- murder and genocide? Idiocy has its limitations you must know.
If you want to know (assuming you dont know already) why Obasanjo is being compared to Saddam Hussein, it is because Obasanjo committed similar crimes like those Saddam is being held for. Firstly, it was in Odi, Bayelsa State where a whole village was levelled to the ground and thousand of the villagers either killed or made homeless till today. Secondly, just like Saddams, Obasanjo's troops beseiged a village in Benue State and arrested some men, lined them up and shot them to to death at close-range. The well-documented cases of some Biafran activists being murdered in cold blood has not been buried yet. Not to talk of others from the Niger Delta region who have either been killed or forced into exil. Just recently, some human rights bodies, including Amnesty International released a report accusing the Obasanjo-led goverment of "jailing some opposition figures without trial" THAT IS WHERE OBASANJO PROPERLY FITS THE SADDAM HUSSEIN PROFILE
So whether you and other Obasanjo's BLIND FOLLOWERS (afteral Saddam also has his equally blind followers) like it or not, and with or without western support, for there to be an enduring peace in Nigeria, just like Saddam, Obasanjo must be made to answer for these and other human rights abuses while he was in office.
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Nwa Aro: So whether you and other Obasanjo's BLIND FOLLOWERS (afteral Saddam also has his equally blind followers) like it or not, and with or without western support, for there to be an enduring peace in Nigeria, just like Saddam, Obasanjo must be made to answer for these and other human rights abuses while he was in office.
NwaAro,
Absolutely well put, as usual.
As an undergrad in the mid 80’s, I had two roommates, one an Iraqi Kurd, by name Ali, the other, Mohammed Reza, an Iranian whose younger brother had been conscripted into Ayatollah Khomeini’s Revolutionary guards and sent to the war front.
Ali’s left arm hung semi-limp in an outward inverted V shape and had a withered look about it. What happened to your hand I asked him sometime after we had met; And with a blank stare; “Dey hong me by de rist”, he replied slowly, “to de ceiling fan, spinningg arround”. “Dey verre shocking myi arrm vit de vires”, he added, Dey killed most of myi famili, de baastards, he concluded, with a fatalistic blank grin that indicated he did’nt want to talk about his arm anymore. He was speaking about Saddams men of course.
About two years later we saw those horrible pictures of Saddams achievements in Kurdish villages. Those pictures of women and children with eyes wide open in glazed blank stares, as fluids seemed to ooze from every orifice in their bodies, frozen to death by nerve agents in the last postures of their last moments in life.
Ali had moved on, I never got a chance to find out his reaction.
Mammaaadreza (as we called him) had also moved on, but I chanced to see him about that same time, around when Iran had called for peace talks, in a war Saddam had started. His junior brother had been killed in a chemical weapons attack by Saddams troops. He was sad but seemed stoic, recalling the news.
It turns out in retrospect, that Iranian positions were being mapped for Saddam by none other than: you guessed it; the US of A who were well aware of what Saddam was doing, but whose policymakers at that time were doing what they felt was in the best interest of the USA.
Many allow themselves to get emotional on this board regarding America’s position and the morality or lack thereof, of it, but America will do what America wants to do and what is in her perceived best interest, right, wrong, or indifferent.
Those who use the label “Nigerians” to describe themselves must ask: Regardless of my moral judgements, ---Where Is my own country in the scheme of things? ---Is my own house in order? ---Where do we fit in? ---What can we do about what I don’t like, happening before me? ---Do we have any sins of our own to be casting the first stone against a behemoth (USA) who knows what it wants and has a system in place that at least enables it to gage, check and rectify itself, and greatly accountable to its citizenry? (at least so much more than many others). ---If I have decided to buck a system I see as unjust and immoral (on principle) by pitching my tent of support in a fight involving that behemoth and another party, do I make a statement that could be seen as hypocritical (in contradiction to my expressed principles) if the other party whom I have chosen to support blindly is guilty of the most atrocious and heinous crimes? ---Finally, for those who have made their home in the UK or America (the behemoth) and are thus beneficiaries of its largess and priviledges, Against whom do I direct my gripe, if I want to be seen as serious? ---Do I have the balls to do it, as is my legitimate right in a democracy?
I could probably hazard to guess that Biafrans, though of varying shades of opinion about the morality and somewhat hypocritical tendencies of the coalition, especially Britain, are most likely unanimous in the conviction that “Nigerians” especially the Muslim ones, are ABSOLUTELY in no position to be preaching morality in this case, especially when it involves Arab Muslims whose crimes against Biafra are known and documented, and whose “Nigerian” surrogates maintain their sprees apace. Least especially are they in any position to be preaching morality when it involves Saddam Hussein or Osama bin (former willing tools of the very same errant US policymakers, most now out of power, but against whom their anger if legitimate, should rightly have been directed at).
These positions stated above, undergird my feelings about this situation for which many pull their hairs out in an emotional tizzy.
It becomes nothing but entertainment value, that merely exposes the hypocrisy and blind emotionality of many, to the point some bright, high IQ handle saw fit to introduce Ojukwu’s name, I suppose as a way to get back at someone.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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Oh boy! Adekunle sure appear to have touched pure raw nerves with his comments about Ojukwu (true comments nonetheless). UkaObasi and NwaAro, abeg sofry sofry o.
___________________ This war of attrition on the Igbo must end now! Posts: 441 | From: california, US | Registered: Jan 2003
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Sheik Mahmoud Nidda is the head of Saddam Hussein's al-Nasseri tribe. In a recent interview he complained that the United States is making his life difficult because he is a relative of Saddam. And now he said, Hussein is no longer a source of pride. Instead, he has reason for embarrassment.
There is no doubt that millions of hearts were broken in Arabia this past weekend when the news of Saddam's cowardly surrender and images of his complete submission before an American army corpsman was beamed to the world. There is no doubt also that the hopelessness of Arabians got deepened.
The image of Saddam's almost grateful surrender to the Americans is in complete dissonance with the image he carefully cultivated and which many Arabs, still haunted by their numerous defeats and humiliations at the hands of westerners, are eager to accept, as the leader and defender of Arab honor and dignity. Whether against Israel or as we saw in 1980, against Iran. As someone may have observed elsewhere it is in complete disagreement with the released taped messages of Saddam calling on Iraqis to matyr themselves.
But this should not surprise us. Arabs are, I write this with great carefulness, a race of cowards. They get enscounced in the beauty and verboisity of words that it often becomes a substitute for deeds. For example, a grandiose threat delivered with flowery words achieves such importance for them that the question of whether or not it is subsequently carried out becomes of minor significance.
___________________ Acting Major Benbella Posts: 27 | From: Madison, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003
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I think the hype in Saddam's Hussein's power should be blamed on the media and US intelligence for overestimating a man who had no clue what his legacy was when he was captured like a rat with the looks of a destitute on skid row.
quote:Originally posted by Acting Major Benbella: .......Arabs are, I write this with great carefulness, a race of cowards. They get enscounced in the beauty and verboisity of words that it often becomes a substitute for deeds. For example, a grandiose threat delivered with flowery words achieves such importance for them that the question of whether or not it is subsequently carried out becomes of minor significance.
Major Benbella,
Can any phrase be more profoundly powerful and flowery than:
"Mother of all battles".
That one phrase alone sent shivers down the spine of Saudi Arabia and made them wimper with tail tucked between their legs to US protection during that first Gulf war.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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I still remember the exhortation you gave me when I was an infant on the board. You said: “Welcome on board. Speak your mind or you will lose it!” You may not remember now, but I thought over those words for some time and I strive to live by it. It reminds me of the saying that goes something like: “Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom/liberty for comfort are not worthy of both.” I can’t tell you how profoundly deep those words were. I have always asked myself times without number if I am still living up to those words.
To start with, I do not believe that this issue is about word count. I may exhaust ten pages to state a point that can be accurately captured by one paragraph so please bear with me when I state that I do not buy that compliment if it was meant to be a compliment. When I write long articles like this, I like to cut them in half but I decided against that in this case for a reason. So, please, do not talk about the length of the essay for in truth, it is not the length of the essay that determines the usefulness of an idea, the ability to communicate or the essence of a point.
Perhaps, you may not have noticed, but I intentionally wrote the article that you commented on as a narrative. That way, I sought to use that article as a leverage to state my opinion, agreements, disagreements, or biases very clearly. Now, you are not the only person that may have had one or two things to disagree with in my article. That they have not yet actually commented on it perhaps borders on the fact that they did not think I was forcing FACTS down anyone’s throat; perhaps they realized that that article was just what it was—an opinion/narrative. If you read carefully, you would notice the many instances that I used the pronoun “I”. Perhaps the best reaction (after I afforded you a window into my thoughts) would have been to make your judgments personally about what I had written and kept it to yourself. Or perhaps, you might have also given us an insight into your own opinions. Be that as it may, I think that you have your God-given right to comment on anything I said, and it is recognition of that fact that I am writing a reply contrary to my earlier inclinations.
From what you have written so far, it does appear that this issue obviously offends you on a deeper level. Artificially, most Nigerians reading about the capture of Saddam can scarcely be bothered. While they may approve or disapprove of the capture, most Nigerians nevertheless, have the presence of mind not to be unduly affected by this event. It is based on this observation that I am wishing that you are not somehow unduly emotional about the capture of Saddam. Come to think of it, when the murderous thug called Charles Taylor was ousted from power, you did not register any gladness about the liberation of fellow West Africans, unlike most people on this board. I wonder why you were largely quiet when the discussions were on Taylor but have seemingly come out swinging on this Saddam issue.
Just take a look at some of the responses of people on this board and then compare it with the responses of former opponents of the US on the Iraqi issue, (countries like France, Germany, China etc) and like someone had earlier pointed out, it becomes at once perplexing what some of us love dearly about Saddam that they are acting in such a bizarre manner? If all of these defensive responses came from Daud or real Arabs (and I imagine that a lot of Arabs must be steamed by the recent events) then it would not have mattered. But when Adekunle, a supposedly respectable fellow, decided that Saddam’s capture fills him with so much bile that he began to nitpick and then raise Ojukwu’s name as a strawman for his rage, then it becomes really pathetic the fact that some of us react with such fervor to this issue and fall curiously silent when other matters are discussed. Perhaps, Adekunle’s rage may be that someone had the effrontery to mention Obasanjo (a yoruba man) as someone worthy of being removed from office. You on the other hand, not only admitted that some of my words annoyed you, but you went to the extent of penning a response to register your wrath. We will get to the substance of your disagreement later. But supposing I asked you why my comments about the capture of Saddam and the affairs of the Middle East riled you up in that manner, what answer would I get? Is it because you regard Arabs to be traditionally very friendly with Blacks? Is it not a well-known fact that Arabs are as racist or judgmental to or about Blacks, if not more, than any other human sub-group? Is your discernible anguish because you resent the fact that Saddam had been captured? What about discussing the capture of Saddam Hussein and the end of his atrocious legacy could possibly offend a Nigerian to this scale?
Now to discuss the issue that you raised, I wonder why the statements I made were ambiguous to you. Perhaps, I need to restate them here:
I do not think that the US can completely stop the scourge of terrorism. I do not think that the US can ever defeat or wipe out terrorism or terrorists. Nonetheless, I commend their efforts so far towards this matter. In other words, inasmuch as I realize that the US and her coalition forces cannot ever completely extinguish terrorism, I still recognize the job they have done so far and give them credit for it.
This is as simple as I can make it. Hopefully, this would clear that part of your reply.
Now, as to the other issue that you raised, I think it is clearly a matter of perception. There is a disparity between the economic stature or standard of living of the average Iraqi and that obtainable in most developed western countries. Also, the capitalistic, hedonistic, or materialistic disposition of the civilized Western world is at variance with the predominant ideology in the theocratic, autocratic, spiritual, or socialist environment of much of the Middle East. Religious indoctrination and aspects of culture also play a vital role. I do not want to emphasize the religious aspect because I do not want to alienate the moderate muslim members of the BNW family that may be reading what I am saying. Therefore, when you sum these parts together and juxtapose it with the unwholesome influences of radical leading figures in the Middle East (or even in Africa), then it is not difficult to see that indeed the unsuspecting common folk can be mobilized to do things that may not be imbued with any intrinsic benefit for them.
Case in point--Saddam Hussein urging gullible Iraqis to continue fighting to their deaths. For what? So that he may return to power? Is this the same man that would rather negotiate to keep his head rather than die for the cause that he had been preaching to gullible Iraqis? On one occasion, he said something about not wanting to drink the water offered to him by coalition forces because he would use the bathroom. So you might ask, in all the months that he buried himself in a hole, what was he subsisting on—air? Ok pardon the slight humor but I fully realize there are some who believe he hasn’t had a decent bath in 8 months hence his beastly appearance, but is it even physically possible that in all the months he was hiding after he was ousted from power, he never tasted any water?
To the best of my knowledge, in any struggle, there are always, educated, wealthy and comfortable persons that have denied themselves the pleasures they had to fight for what they believed in. By stating that there are comfortable, relatively wealthy or educated Iraqis that are part of the current struggles with the United States, you have not said anything terribly new. The fact still remains however, that on a general scale, most of the people involved do not live the gorgeous life that you live out there in the Netherlands. If you doubt it, relocate to Iraq, get involved in the struggle and then come back to report to us what percentage of your fellows-in-arms have all the opportunities that you have in the Netherlands.
Furthermore, the point you raised, I suppose to contradict the point I made about the care taken by the US to avoid civilian casualties, can be viewed from two fronts:
First, you have to agree from the get-go that no number given regarding this matter is the absolute unshakeable fact. The fact is that depending on which agencies you rely on, your estimate will be different. However, NONE of these ESTIMATES are accurate. They still are estimates. Also, there is no way that you (yes you) can give the DEFINITE number of these casualties which are from Iraqis that willingly came to fight for Saddam, or that were killed by the terrorist actions of Saddam’s Fedayeen or the present batch of bus-bombers, or that died of sickness or the inability to get medical aid during the month-long war, or died naturally, or that died by the error of the coalition troops.
Lastly, for your objection to my simple point to have any merit, you have to demonstrate that the coalition forces were ordered to shoot and kill innocent civilians indiscriminately. That, my brother, is the true way that you can demonstrate your point of disagreement. And by the way, if it slipped your memory, I make haste to remind you that I acknowledged that there were civilian casualties which as a characteristic of every armed struggle is without doubt regrettable.
Thanks!
Addendum: While you correctly identified Iraq as ancient Babylon, I wonder, if your last paragraph were you said “As for Saddam, they may have just rescued a prince of Medes and Persia from boredom” to mean that Iraq was also the ancient empire/kingdom of Persia. If that was the impression, then kindly correct it Sir, because the facts show that ancient Persia, the empire that historically overthrew the Babylonian empire, is the present day IRAN.
Maazi Ukaobasi, if I die here laughing, na you my village pipool go catch.
All:
I think the statement of Tunde Onabanjo summarized my feelings so far. What an ignominious end indeed to this man that had for such a long time ruled over Iraq with unrequited tyranny.
Who will get that $25 million that was placed on Saddam’s head?
quote: Try as much as you can but the fact is most Arabs and Muslim faithfull feel completed humiliated at the sight of infidel soldiers picking off lice from the head of their once great commander. What a coward Saddam has turned out to be, this was how Mullah Umar and his gang in Kandahar cut deals with local warlords and headed for the hills when the real jihad started.
I am tired of all this mouthy cowards and and their blind supporters like Daud who cannot think for themselves, lets hear your excuse when they finally catch that flea bag Usama. Gosh I don't want to know when last he took a decent bath, pity the poor doctor who will examine him.
I believe that you may have made a prophecy without realizing it. Osama bin Laden will be caught eventually. It is just a matter of time. When that time approaches, I hope he will have the guts to do whatever it will take rather than fall into the hands of the soldiers of “The Great Satan”. Most of these dictators are really cowards when the true test of strength or valor approaches.
Notice how that most Arabs would have wanted to see Saddam killed instead of captured so that they can use his death as a convenient excuse to immortalize a wretch? And even though a lot of Arabs still rail against the man, have you begun to notice how that Saddam has suddenly lost significance and now there are some who would want to talk about Saddam’s rights—rights and justice that he denied to so many?
And have you also noticed how that the UN is about to be locked in another fruitless discussion as to whether Saddam really deserved the death penalty? Pardon me, but it almost seems that there is no end to the ridiculous, insincere rhetoric that people opposed to the US on principle would advance on this matter. What if the Iraqis that will try Saddam decide to go by the Arab rule of thumb which proposes death for anyone that takes life and decide to give Saddam the capital punishment?
Anyways, I can’t stop laughing when I read your last sentence where you declared rather disgustingly, that you pity the poor doctor that would examine Osama. I tink say the man dey shower well well oo. Infact, I think that when he is captured or killed, he may not even be sporting a beard!
Goodness knows if that wretch would not be found in a posh hotel in Iran or Turkey, chilling in a sauna, cigarettes in hand, lavishly attended to by a bevy of ladies, and listening to the words of ‘wisdom’ that sipped from his Taliban second-in-command (who can conveniently double as his personal assistant or spiritual director) as they watched the local news by 9 whilst out there in Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, or elsewhere, his feckless followers continually strap bombs to their waists, hide out in uncomfortable places or practice endlessly the rigorous details of handling cargo planes, just so they can fulfill that volatile purpose which this man had uniquely personified.
In the fullness of time, all that is hidden will be exposed!
posted
Quote: ------------------------------------- "...I write this with great carefulness, a race of cowards. They get enscounced in the beauty and verboisity of words that it often becomes a substitute for deeds..."---Benbella --------------------------------------
Same can also be said of the Yoruba race of Nigeria. All you have to do is to dig into Nigerian history to come to that conclusion. Like Arabs like Yoruba.
All, Meanwhile, the Saddam in Obasanjo is not only been noticed and DOCUMENTATED by only the Nwa Aros. The US-based human rights body, Human Rights Watch, and I guess others are also recording Obasanjo's craze for raw power and the trampeding on the rights of his fellow citizens as he goes after it as Saddam did:
From the BBC: ----------------------------------------------- Nigeria accused of rights abuses
A leading US human rights group has accused Nigerian security forces of killings and other abuses in the oil-rich southern Delta region. New York-based Human Rights Watch said the killings had arisen from efforts to end civil unrest in the region. Thousands have been displaced and hundreds killed since ethnic clashes erupted in March. Militant Ijaw youths have targeted oil firms and rival Itsekeri communities demanding a share of oil wealth. Human Rights Watch called on Nigeria - the world's seventh largest oil exporter - to bring the perpetrators to justice, hold fresh elections in the region and crackdown on oil theft, which it said was fuelling the conflict. "There is an urgent need to end the impunity of the ethnic militia and their organisers, of those controlling the illegal oil bunkering activities and of the security forces when they are themselves responsible for abuses," their report said. In a report released earlier this month, Human Rights Watch accused the Nigerian Government of using violence and intimidation to silence its critics. Responding to that report, Nigeria said the claims were "exaggerated". Julius Ihonvbere - a special adviser to President Olusegun Obasanjo - told the Associated Press that the "human rights community in this country has a mindset of opposition at all costs". 'Oil theft' The Nigerian Government deployed about 3,000 troops and police in the delta in August to restore order but the latest report list several killings it blamed on security forces. Violence peaked during elections in April and May, when there was disruption to oil operations for several weeks. Human Rights Watch called for new elections in the Delta state, saying the polls were flawed and that accusations of massive vote rigging had deepened grievances. "Although the violence has both ethnic and political dimensions, it is essentially a fight over the oil money, both government revenue and the profits of stolen oil," said Bronwen Manby, author of the report. The report said profits from stolen crude were financing arms purchases and recommended "certifying" oil from legitimate sources as a means of cracking down on the racket. Nigeria's top oil producer Shell recently said oil theft had fallen to about 20,000 barrels per day, from a peak of 100,000 barrels earlier this year. ------------------------------------------
Just like the Charles Taylors and now Saddam Hussein, in the fullness of time, there wont be any hidding place for Obasanjo.
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Adekunle: You must be the most stupid person that lives on mother earth to dare....
Nwa Aro:
You are a demented rodent. And if you were not in your own rat hole of delusions, you would have known that the US assisted Iraq in carrying out the genocide on the Shiites during the Iraq-Iran War, and it was the US that provided the means for Iraq to use chemical weapons on Iraqi Shiites during that war because the US saw Iraqi Shiites as allies of US enemy, Iran. Donald Rumsfeld still considered Saddam a US ally long after the use of those chemical weapons. The US did not condemn Iraq when the weapons were used. Iraq's use of chemical weapons suddenly turned criminal during the first Gulf War when Saddam turned those weapons on the Kurds who were sabotaging their own country during a war with the US. The hypocrisy stinks.
Since you are too stupid to read, let me ram some things into your skull. No one is saying that Ojukwu killed his own people or that he committed genocide. But, do you really think that there can be no comparison between Biafra and these events? With whom do you expect me to compare Ojukwu? Jonas Savimbi? Nelson Mandela? Savimbi died in a blaze of bullet glory fighting for what he believed in. Mandela turned down offers of realease from Robin Island unless his people were free.
Bush has killed more Iraqis than Saddam did. Bush starved Iraqi children to death under the pretext of international sanctions. Bush invaded and used all manner of pretext to murder tens of thousands of Iraqi women and children. Are those not the things you have been crying yourself pink about in this forum concerning Nigeria and Biafra?
Going inside a hole is what soldiers do during a war. We now know that Saddam was moving around in a taxi, coordinating the resistance, and returing to a humble hole at the end of the day's work. Go and look at the archives of the Nigerian Civil War. Always with an imported ciggarette in his hand or mouth, Ojukwu looked more interested in keeping his shoes and uniforms spotlessly clean than in getting dirty to win the war. When it came time for him to let go of the luxuries and begin the guerilla war, he ran away and left his deputy to surrender.
You are confused on this issue. Biafrans were no fools. It was very well known that the blood of Ojukwu was a key objective of the Nigerian vandals in the Nigeria-Biafra War. Therefore, Biafrans made it a matter of national policy to preserve Ojukwu and deprive the bloodthirsty Nigerian hoodlums of their objective. It would not have mattered if Ojukwu refused to leave; Biafrans were ready to make him. That Ojukwu remains a thorn in the flesh of all Igbo haters today is eloquent testimony to the wisdom of the Biafrans in removing Ojukwu at the time they did.
___________________ Tụfue nu nwa melụ alụ, olue echi amụta ọzọ Posts: 158 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Adekunle: No one is saying that Ojukwu killed his own people or that he committed genocide. But, do you really think that there can be no comparison between Biafra and these events? With whom do you expect me to compare Ojukwu? Jonas Savimbi? Nelson Mandela? Savimbi died in a blaze of bullet glory fighting for what he believed in. Mandela turned down offers of realease from Robin Island unless his people were free.
Adeks,
You make a rather compelling point, even though I’d say a little bit on the overly romantic or melo-dramatic side? (you’ve been on that revisionist diet again haven’t you),
Lets take the models you suggested for instance, you said “Savimbi died in a blaze of bullet glory fighting for what he believed in”. Pretty convenient romanticized revisionism (am sure Savimbi’s supporters would be mighty proud) , but just what did Savimbi believe in? I’ll let you fill us in for now,
Suffice is to say he was caught in an ambush, well armed and in battle mode, and though the desire to survive is an instinct that drives man and animal to desperation, that act of desperation in that material instant was all he had, and could do him no good, simply because at that moment, there was no luxury of choice offered by those who preferred him dead than alive. His bloated and scummy carcass of a corpse, it is now obvious, certainly failing from thence to inspire any redemptive intensity of uprising, apart from the usual scuttle by underlings to fill the power vacuum in preparation for leverage in negotiating a possibly lucrative position in a future govt of compromise. “There is no honor among thieves” as they say. Case closed.
We now move on to Nelson Mandela of South Africa, how can one even attempt to use him as a comparison if not for the desire to score a cheap point, in which attempt one exposes ones mischievious intent in this futile task more robustly?
Context: South Africa could not be compared with Nigeria. Nigeria was colonized, but not settled permanently by Whites, Dutch or English. South Africa was settled by whites; Dutch and English, the Dutch gaining greater political influence after the Boer wars of the late 1800’s and having a totally different intent about Africa than the British.
A comparison for Nelson Mandela’s actions would be more realistic if say American Indians were the majority population in the US, and an American Indian were to rise up through civil action to challenge the injustices, inequities, and racialism of a system that subdued his race of peoples to subhuman status, I need not go further with such a hypothesis because none exists.
Mandela therefore took to activism, in a situation where people of his race as a whole were experiencing the same thing in one form or another and were acting whether collectively or independently to break the constituted law? (good or bad), but in a situation none-the-less in which he was representing the powerless. To assume that Mandela stayed put and went to jail voluntarily is to assume that Mandela believed in passivity, he did not!,and we all know that. What he therefore did while in jail in response to offers to sellout is therefore of no consequence in a comparison of his reactions with that of Ojukwu, because no similar circumstances existed.
Mandela is a great man, in the mold of Lincoln, MLK, and Ghandi, I will make bold to compare Ojukwu’s greatness with his, only on the count that Ojukwu even had the audacity to see himself as equals with anybody and to act as such unflinchingly all his life (something that annoyed your colonial masters to no end and seemed both to symbolize and chrystalize their belief about Igbos, and to galvanize their determination to undermine Biafra directly or indirectly and at all costs), but the context of their fights were totally different so anyone who attempts to compare Ojukwu with these men on any basis other than that which I have stated above would only be attempting to demonstrate that inane penchant for misplaced mischief.
There is therefore no other comparison for Ojukwu’s greatness better than Fidel Castro, a man who did not know his place in the scheme of things and stepped on the toes of the high and mighty. We know what has continued to happen to Fidel, and the many attempts there have been on his life by the high and mighty, while I have no love or admiration of his Marxist Lenninist Communist ideals, you must admit that the man is simply larger than life. He did not have Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa opportunists waiting in the wings to play “good boy” at his expense and so all those who have gone after him have only met with repeated failure, but that never seems to have stopped them from trying, even though the man is too old for anybody with a sense of shame to take pride in fighting or humiliating.
Again case closed.
quote:Originally posted by Adekunle: Going inside a hole is what soldiers do during a war. We now know that Saddam was moving around in a taxi, coordinating the resistance, and returing to a humble hole at the end of the day's work.
Another romanticized revisionism by Adekunle, I like that “humble hole at the end of the days work” part, added no doubt for emphasis and effect, but was he really coordinating the resistance?, moving around in a taxi like an action superhero?, or is this just part of the lame attempt to justify an impulsive comparison made in the mischief of utter frustration?
quote:Originally posted by Adekunle: Go and look at the archives of the Nigerian Civil War. Always with an imported ciggarette in his hand or mouth, Ojukwu looked more interested in keeping his shoes and uniforms spotlessly clean than in getting dirty to win the war. When it came time for him to let go of the luxuries and begin the guerilla war, he ran away and left his deputy to surrender.
It is on record that Iraqis and Arabs have bitterly reflected upon the fact that their leader was caught in a hole like a rat. When the first bombs started falling, Saddam had already fled. If he had had better relationships with Syrian Baathists or with Turkey, or with Iran, or with Kuwait or Jordan, don’t you think he would have hightailed it there a long time ago? Iraqis and Arabs have voiced there expectations severally that they thought that was where he was.
How do you think they felt when he was running from rat hole to rat hole? Do you think they weren’t wishing he wouldn’t be caught as we have now seen from the deep sense of humiliation that followed his capture?
The fact is that Biafrans have never complained that Ojukwu (a young man in his 30’s when all the drama you cite was going on) let us down in any manner, he aquitted himself very well and Biafrans were not subject to see the humiliation of what the British would have wanted to do with him at the hands of the willing “Nigerians” just to make an example of an indomitable Igbo son. I for one am happy that like Bush sr. during the first Gulf war (who was always shown playing golf to underscore his cockiness toward Saddam’s worst) Ojukwu and Effiong and the Biafran top brass did all they could to present their best front. This pissed off many a “Nigerian” soldier who with the backing received from Britain are still endeavoring to prove a point because of the Inferiority complex that educated and professional Igbo soldiers of that day must have inflicted upon them.
The comparison of Cowardice I see if we are free on this thread to drag in unrelated comparisons thus becomes that of Yoruba leaders of equal stature with Ojukwu mortgaging their consciences after supporting a coup by Nzeogwu, and then allowing Hausa to run roughshod over Yorubaland killing southerners mostly Igbo in cold blood, using the trickery of summoning Southeastern soldiers out of their barracks for parade under directive to leave their weapons, massacreing the soldier class, and then going on to hunt down civilian class Southeasterners and proceeding to massacre them in cold blood while Yoruba military “shons of the shoil” stood in abject fear, their scrotums sucked way into their stomachs, forced to later join a “Nigeria” that offered them an opportunity at the comfort of overtaking “those Igbos” but nothing more, no liberty, but death in life, even when their tribesman is the so called president, a transitory thing.
The comparison of Cowardice I see if we are free on this thread to drag in unrelated comparisons thus becomes that of that of Yoruba leaders of equal stature with Ojukwu mortgaging their consciences to betray an Abiola to Abacha even after Igbos had had a hand in getting Abiola elected.
The comparison of Cowardice I see if we are free on this thread to drag in unrelated comparisons thus becomes that of Diya, a Yoruba prince kneeling before Abacha (was he giving Abacha a blow-job or what was all that about?) pleading for his life without shame.
The comparisons abound, and in that enterprise I need not go farther, suffice is to say that if such comparison become necessary as Adekunle attempted to make, between Saddam and Ojukwu, it may be humbling to know that the comparison between Saddam and Adekunle’s kinsmen be they from NADECO onwards, would only demonstrate Saddams humiliating capture to pale in comparison to the levels of cowardice Yoruba sons have displayed in our short “Nigerian” experience, time without number.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Quote: --------------------------------------- "Going inside a hole is what soldiers do during a war."---Adekunle. ---------------------------------------
Adekunle: How contradictory. You say Nwa Aro cannot read, but you are the same person who made jest of Ojukwu for "going inside a hole"; be it in another country. If I understand your statement above, what you are saying is that when pushed too hard and far, a soldier has every right to move position (be it into a hole or into exile) to live to fight another day. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE IGBOS DID BY MOVING OJUKWU OUT. Just like in every war, you the enemy ought not to know why Ojukwu was moved or moved and for what reason. If moving Ojukwu (or Ojukwu moving out), which ever way you want it was a crime, it is we Igbos who would have been complaining and not you BEASTY NIGERIANS. But assuming that he left as they say TO LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY (as he has been doing for us Igbos since he returned from exile) what is the difference from that with what you said above soldiers can/should do?
When next you want to exhibit your Yoruba short-circuit understanding and interpretation of what transpired before, during and after the Nigerian civil war, just go to you know where and dont make the mistake of coming here to run your dirty mouth.
As wise and fair as you want to appear, could you tell us what you said when Obasanjo gave shelter to another Saddam Hussein in the person of Charles Taylor? As usual, you and your Yoruba gang kept quite only to appear now to tell us what even a kindergarten kid already know - that Saddam was once an American errand-boy.
With the coming to power of your "Baba," you Yorubas have shown that you are more than the "rodent" you vomitted in your self-contradicting mail.
Posts: 997 | From: Germany | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Here's that rap song Saddam and Osama released
This is a little rap between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, discussing their tactics of escaping American troops, the support of Iraq, and of course ... the war.
[Osama] Bin to the Laden Osama Yeah yeah, yo yo We off Iraq this year Went from hated to despised this year Everybody mad at the turban I wear I know where I'm goin & I know it's to Saddam, you hear Yeah, we're at the airport out decline from Iraq this year Where everybody George-Bushed-Out With some more money, you fresh, nothin' American with us Make the bombs, piss off Bush, bring the UN with us
[Saddam] From Afghanistan to the crips From Saudi Arabia to this Bin Laden's first pick I stay pissed as the troops roll in I swear I thought I told ya (I'm real) I ain't going on Oprah (I'm real) Can't Bush see? Nothing on me Don't hate on me What you get are the bombs you see
[Chorus] Don't be fooled by the bombs that I got I'm still, I'm still Saddam from Iraq Used to be in trouble, now I'm simply f--ked No matter where I go, I know where I came from
Don't be fooled by the bombs that I got I'm still, I'm still Saddam from Iraq Used to be in trouble, now I'm simply f--ked No matter where I go, I know where I came from
[Osama] I'm down to earth like this Ain't none of the US's business I've pushed Saddam so much I'm in control and lovin' it Yeah, I'm one of 52 kids But I love my moms and my publics Put Allah first And can't forget to stay real To me it's like Islam
[Chorus] Don't be fooled by the bombs that I got I'm still, I'm still Saddam from Iraq Used to be in trouble, now I'm simply f--ked No matter where I go, I know where I came from
Don't be fooled by the bombs that I got I'm still, I'm still Saddam from Iraq Used to be in trouble, now I'm simply f--ked No matter where I go, I know where I came from
[Osama] Yo Bush, he works the cash checks 'Cause them Americans wanna get us caught But we got my assets You get back what you shoot up Even if it takes all the fun out Can't count the FBI out After awhile, you know who to mess with And my man Bush here's the best one Best thing is to stay low, Saddam and Sama. O We act like we don't but we know They can't get no info And at the end of the war He's still Saddam from Iraq
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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