posted
This is a well done piece by Uzochukwu J. Njoku. Without oversimplifying this piece, it shows how imported religions fail to take into account realities in Africa. This one takes a critical look at the folly of asking hungry and starving people to fast during Lent.
For the fasting effect it makes no difference if a person has been feeding well or not.
In a poor and underdeveloped country such as India, the few christians that are there practise dry fasting. Those christians belong to the poorest of the poor - and yet they fast regularly.
Could it be that the writer of the article is merely using religion to push forth his political opinion?
[ March 01, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: AfroEuro ]
Posts: 65 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:6"No, the kind of fasting I want calls you to free those who are wrongly imprisoned and to stop oppressing those who work for you. Treat them fairly and give them what they earn. 7I want you to share your food with the hungry and to welcome poor wanderers into your homes. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help. ..Stop oppressing the helpless "
I also disagree with your narrow view on what fasting is all about. See Ezra Chapter 8
quote:21 There, by the Ahava Canal, I proclaimed a fast, so that we might humble ourselves before our God and ask him for a safe journey for us and our children, with all our possessions. 22 I was ashamed to ask the king for soldiers and horsemen to protect us from enemies on the road,
Now was this fast for physical protection or "spiritual power"?
If the writer is employing his christianity towards the political emancipation of his kin, then he is a Good man. I find it revolting when those Yoroba Bishops pray for God to strengthen the evil Obasanjo. Strenghten him for what? So that he will kill more Biafrans, Odians or Zaki-Ibiamites or collect more wives? Ignorant "prophets"
quote: 10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, 17 Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee: be not dismayed at their faces, lest I confound thee before them. 18 For, behold, I have made thee this day a defenced city, and an iron pillar, and brasen walls against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, against the princes thereof
I'll rather root out the evil baba Iyabo than pray and partake in his iniquities!
___________________ Awo's political idea was based on the assumption that any town beyond Owo was Igbo or Hausa. Awo was not socialised; he was not a good mixer because he did not have the opportunity, which the secondary school offered. ~TOS Benson, Baba Oba of Lagos Posts: 2644 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Do you know that at the gospelcom.net Website, you can display single verses? You can get single verses by writing your Bible verse in the "Search by passage" input box. Quoting entire chapters doesn't create a clear picture of what you're really trying to say.
When a human being is not eating food and drinking water for many days (dry fasting), and during the fast the fasting person concentrates his entire self unto God, then spiritual power will be released from heaven. At this extreme condition a fasting human being can perform miracles with the power of God. Remember that the Lord Jesus Christ withstood the threefold temptation of satan after fasting for fourty days?
If you've never fasted for more than at least seven full days you cannot understand this phenomena.
The disciples at one point were not able to cast out a demon from out of a human being. Jesus, after casting the demon out, revealed to us the secret of performing such kind of miracles: "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."(Mark 9:29)
Forget about the hypocrites mentioned in Isaiah whose fasting God did not honour. This is not what is meant with fasting.
Again, the financial condition of a person fasting is irrelevant. What is important is keeping the fast dry (no food and water), and concentrating and meditating unto God during the fast.
The article is thus simply using a religious discipline (fasting) to attack political leaders. This is vanity and a misuse of religion.
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posted
Ohafia, Thanks for those passages. I have always known the bible to be the ultimate literary masterpiece in the right hands. On the other hand, nothing promotes disharmony and injustuce as the pseudo biblical philosophy of evil men of the Obasanjo type.
[ March 04, 2004, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: CSE ]
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quote:Do you know that at the gospelcom.net Website, you can display single verses? You can get single verses by writing your Bible verse in the "Search by passage" input box. Quoting entire chapters doesn't create a clear picture of what you're really trying to say. >>by AfroEuro
AfroEuro:
I want to believe that I have the right to present my case the way I please. You would have come across better if you had asked why I opted for the style I use. I personally believe that giving the chapter makes a "fuller" grap of the contextual premise of the "verses" which constitute the thrust of my debate standpoint.
On the other hand, quoting a detached verse could be indicative of an uncoordinated and disjointed persona. Do you remember the Yoroba General named Oladikpo Donaldson Diya who was Abacha's number two on paper? Well "General" denied ever falling at the feet of Abacha and Major Hamza to weep for forgiveness from the evil duo. When the secretely filmed video recording was played back in the presence of his two wives, Diya eventually admitted his sins with these words: "Jesus Wept" John 11 Vs 35 For the uneducated omo alayes and area boys in that packed arena, Diya was connecting his shameful,degrading and disgusting weeping with a verse: But when an educated mind examines the context of Jesus' weeping by reading more than just one verse, it immediately becomes obvious that yoroba "General" Diya was was weeping for a completely different reason.
I'm somewhat amazed even offended by the twists you are adding to the plain passages I have put out. You need to know that Ezra clearly spells out why they where fasting/praying. The passage on Fasting is God giving a blue print on what fasting should be.
Again, I'll require you to show me anywhere in the Bible where it is said that the reason for Jesus fasting was to prepare for temptation. On the other hand it is clear if you'll read the whole passage that he was tempted after his fasting and even his natural craving for food was capitalised on by Satan. He told the tempter that the physical food(bread) wasn't as important as God's requirement(instruction, word). You are the one that will have Biafrans put bread above their God-given self-worth.
quote: Again, the financial condition of a person fasting is irrelevant. What is important is keeping the fast dry (no food and water), and concentrating and meditating unto God during the fast. >>by Afro Euro
quote:2"During those days, I, Daniel, went into mourning over Jerusalem for three weeks. 3I ate only plain and simple food, no seasoning or meat or wine. I neither bathed nor shaved until the three weeks were up.
On the issue of Finances et al, you only have to look at the Israelites under cruel slavery in Egypt. The Bible doesn't tell us they fasted but it is recorded that they:
quote:groaned under their slavery and cried out. Their cries for relief from their hard labor ascended to God: God listened to their groanings. Exodus 2 Vs 23, 24
I'm sure you'd agree with me that a man under cruel hardship does'nt require an additional effort to groan/cry. It comes naturally. That is the picture the writer IMHO was trying to paint, i.e. that BiafraNigerians do not need to fast for their groan/cry to be heard from on high. That, my friend is the heart of the matter. And just like Pharaoh was hardened and ruined, so shall Obasanjo the ape come to a swift and calamitous end. And when that happens, BiafraNigerians will jubilate because: Remove the wicked from leadership and authority will be credible and God-honoring.
quote: 23It's wrong, very wrong, to go along with injustice.
24Whoever whitewashes the wicked gets a black mark in the history books, 25But whoever exposes the wicked will be thanked and rewarded(by God).
Adios.
___________________ Awo's political idea was based on the assumption that any town beyond Owo was Igbo or Hausa. Awo was not socialised; he was not a good mixer because he did not have the opportunity, which the secondary school offered. ~TOS Benson, Baba Oba of Lagos Posts: 2644 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
To the handle AfroEuro I finally say welcome to BNW.
Below are some bulletted statements which underscore my understanding of the authors thrust in his piece. “Lent: Let's Think about Lent”
I could honestly state that having read that piece of eloquent and moving discourse by Mazi Njoku, a consistent and pervading comparison and contrast between the emphasis with which lent has come to be viewed (i.e fasting, almsgiving and prayer) versus the true emphasis the author believes would enrich, complete, and bring to full blossom the true meaning of lent (i.e the preparation to celebrate the resurrection) is evident for all to review.
Please consider the following:
quote: Lent: Let's Think about Lent By Uzochukwu Njoku
● Ash Wednesday begins the Christian season of Lent. It is a season of special spiritual significance for Christians. Traditionally, three features characterise this period, namely fasting, almsgiving and prayer. However, an important question, which I intend to raise in this essay, is whether these emphases ought to exhaust the totality of Lent.
● Fasting, abstinence, and mortification (among other things) draw from the philosophical tradition, which conceives reality in terms of dualisms - spirit and matter, the world of eternal forms and the physical world. The spirit is presented to be superior to matter, the world of eternal forms seen as superior to the physical world.
● In the light of this reasoning, people were encouraged to subjugate the flesh and to punish the body as a way of purifying the spirit - since the body (flesh) was seen as a corruption of the spirit.
● When we come to think of it, fasting and mortification presuppose that the individual deprives himself or herself of some normal comforts.
● The need for them to fast and forgo some pleasures for the sake of their soul draws from this assumption that they have been comfortable during the other parts of the year.
● Therefore, I think that if the Lenten season is just a time of fasting, abstinence or sacrifice, then one can say that the life of many African people can simply be defined as an on-going Lent and therefore need no other Lent.
● My questions do not mean that Lent is irrelevant. I accept that Lent is a significant spiritual season. However, I insist that to understand it simply from the perspective of fasting and abstinence (which has been the hallmark of traditional Christian thought) cannot exhaust the richness of this season.
● As a black African who lives within present historical and socio-economic circumstances, I prefer to look at Lent as a season, which prepares us to confront the possibility of rising from the dead (rather than a time of fasting).
● In many ways, you may agree with me that we are at this state of death in our national and continental history. There is despair and frustration. When the preacher tells us to chastise our flesh, little does he know that we no longer have the flesh to chastise
● How more can one define death!
● Apart from the sphere of the national and continental, we also encounter the state of death equally at various times in our personal lives. At times we come at crossroads in life, or encounter hopeless situations. These crossroads may be in terms of health problems, financial problems, choice of carrier, understanding the dynamics of life, choice of and life with a life partner, etc.
● Lent is a season which reminds us that Jesus could make Lazarus rise from the dead even after his funeral. Lent is a period, when Christians prepare to celebrate the resurrection of Christ. The season of Lent should also give us the courage to confront our many states of death. Lent ought to prepare us to say that there can never be an end to possibilities. Lent and Easter ought to be a response to those who have given up hope concerning many issues both in the public and private realms of life. Lent is a period which reminds us that we should and in fact, that we must rise from the dead.
● Consequently, rather than just being seen as forty days of praying, fasting and abstinence, African Christians should appropriate the image of Lent, which emphasises the preparation to celebrate the resurrection.
● The realities of present day African social and individual living indicate that an emphasis on Lent as a preparation to rise again has more relevance to us than being fixed on the traditional imagery of chastising the flesh.
It would be necessary to re-visit the full text of this article to gain full appreciation. Below is the firsthand response as expressed by AfroEuro:
quote: Religious fasting as practised by Jews, Christians and members of other religions has only one aim:
attaining spiritual power.
Any other aim is vanity and unbiblical.
For the fasting effect it makes no difference if a person has been feeding well or not.
In a poor and underdeveloped country such as India, the few christians that are there practise dry fasting. Those christians belong to the poorest of the poor - and yet they fast regularly.
Could it be that the writer of the article is merely using religion to push forth his political opinion?
In response to which of the authors comments are the above assertions by AfroEuro? Especially the following:
quote: Could it be that the writer of the article is merely using religion to push forth his political opinion?
One can only express complete shock and amazement at the eager and cavalier manner with which such a comment reflecting absolutely no relationship to the intent and character of the piece with respect to which it purports to comment is vommitted as if by impulse with no measure of self control.
What gives?
Furthermore,
Here's the lecture with which AfroEuro started a response to OU:
quote:Do you know that at the gospelcom.net Website, you can display single verses? You can ......................Quoting entire chapters doesn't create a clear picture of what you're really trying to say
Isnt OU being very considerate and accomodating when he goes to the extent of not only posting his reference by attaching a link, but by going the extra mile to attach the context which serves to validate the full meaning and interpretation he has derived from it. Did he really quote entire chapters? was the exaggerration required? Could there be other consumers on this forum who may appreciate OU's gesture in going the extra- mile without depriving us still the opportunity to peruse his source for ourselves.
AfroEuro stated categorically that
quote:"the true aim of fasting is attaining spiritual power".
Where is this mystical concept of “dry fasting” for 7 or more days spelled out categorically or literarily in the bible? Is that one one of those “secrets” of which only the “chosen” are aware? and how does the following reference:
quote:The disciples at one point were not able to cast out a demon from out of a human being. Jesus, after casting the demon out, revealed to us the secret of performing such kind of miracles: "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." (Mark 9:29)
Further substantiate the existence of that concept and necessarily, the earlier assertion out of context with Uzochukwu’s piece that:
quote: Religious fasting as practised by Jews, Christians and members of other religions has only one aim: attaining spiritual power. Any other aim is vanity and unbiblical.
Does UzoChukwu’s piece at any point contradict the notion that elevation of the Spirit over the body (aka spiritual power) and closer to God is part of the aims of fasting?
Could there be an overly exibitionist tendency being displayed by cavalierly twisting everything including the bible to satisfy personal opinion without a measure of circumspection?
Many here including self havent even started referencing the bible to buttress secular opinions on debateable topics, as one is aware of that old adage that “even the devil can quote scripture” (in practical application, could also be translated to mean, “anyone can cheapen and twist the bible”) or that part of the ten commandments which cautions: “Thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain”.
A hesitance by existing members of the forum to apply scriptural reference to validate every opinion, in order to score points, should not indicate an absence of understanding of the scriptures, but rather should indicate tempered wisdom and restraint in possible reflection of that old adage which cautions: “Look before you leap”, an advise which sooner or later comes back to confront all who ignore it as they bust onto this BNW scene with untamed gusto.
___________________ YA CAIN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN :) Posts: 1182 | From: TEXAS | Registered: Oct 2001
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