And the rest of the nay-sayers, doomsday appologists, Democracy haters and Bush bashers - Iraq is going to be really free and democratized. I saw them dancing in the streets and rejoicing, I saw them spewing out in masses (inspite of the hellfire promised by the insurgents) to vote. A few died and paid the last price. But overall, It seems Iraq is on its way to become the beacon of hope to the entire Muslim middle east. Democracy is the way to go.
Now, what say you 'Taliban Daud'? What say you my fellow Nwabiafra and the rest of all of you Bush haters?
___________________ Speak softly, but carry a big stick - Teddy Rosevelt. Posts: 18 | From: New Berlin, WI | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
A vote for democracry in one day does not transform into a democratic society; it is a step towards it's actualization, take Nigeria as an example.
The action exhibited by the Iraqis is Bush's sweat and dream of a free world, particularly the satanic moslems. And that dream is a wonderful one. Bush is on track.Kudos to the Iraqis and hail to GW.
Hail Biafra
Posts: 1684 | From: Minnesota USA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
The fact that Bush has used democrazy to install his stooges does not neccessarily portend well for the iraqis as a nationalist state. The fact that cnn(american propaganda tool) showes iraqis rejoicing does not neccessarily mean anything. After all they were rejoicing in sodom and gomorah b4 it was wiped from the earth. But if everyone is so happy about bush and his democrazy then how come there are the so called insurgents there in the first place? The democrazy installed in iraq is no better than that installed in nigeria in 1960, with the aim of perpetuating colonialistic dominance with minum of administrative and political expense by the oppressors. Why has bush not gone to install democracy in cuba his next door neighbour? Or most of the south american countries near to him? Let us not also forget that Bush invaded this country on false pretence and that he is responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civillians in his greedy quest for world dominance and control of oil recources. Let us open our eyes and watch this bush well
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
posted
p.s the "insurgents" have far from lost. Lets wait just a few days and see their response. the holding of the election alone cannot stop them. All depends on the effectiveness on the new Government.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
"A vote for one day does not transform into a democratic society....." Yes, that is true. But Iraq is on it way. The next few days and months will be crucial, and if everything works out fine, then the entire middle east will take notice and listen. Al Jazeerah and all people with similar minds would bow to the supremacy of the novell idea of Democracy. God will see them through.
Ochiwar:
The insurgents are people that think like you do. They are people who would not recognise a good thing even if hits them in the face. They are Sunni people who have benefited immensely from persecuting a much larger Shia and Kurds/Christian populations under the evil Sadam Hussein. Now they are petrified that the table would be turned against them. You support these people, you probably support the Nigerian Talibans of Northern Nigeria. You need your head checked.
___________________ Speak softly, but carry a big stick - Teddy Rosevelt. Posts: 18 | From: New Berlin, WI | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
Talkanddoo No I dont need my head checked because of a difference in philosophy. You are an optimist, while I am a realist or you might even say persimist. That does not mean I am mad. I tend to weigh issues in context of the broad picture. Let me make my point clear. It is true that irais have been freed from saddam. It is also true that democracy is a step foward for iraq. But all this does not make bush a saint. On the contrary it was not out of his free will that he had to rush these election, but it was forced on him by the insurgents by continuing attacks and rising death toll of bush troops. He actually has no choice but this is his only option and it actually falls into his plans quite well. So what will be the outcome of the elections? well the bush stooges will win . Case closed. So why give Bush all the credit as if he has done a wonderfull thing. Look well and you will find that he is only serving his self intrest, and the rushed elections happend to coincide with that. I repeat "make una de watch that bush well well".
quote:They are Sunni people who have benefited immensely from persecuting a much larger Shia and Kurds/Christian populations under the evil Sadam Hussein. Now they are petrified that the table would be turned against them.
I think you are grossly oversimplifying the issue in that statement because you are not taking into consideration the cultural and especialy religious motivations. A far larger number of the insurgents are religious fanatics and those who lost loved ones in the american mass bombings of iraq than people who fear persecution. would people who fear persecution be blowing themselves up in kamikaze attack? You are right though when you say that I think like these people.In a certain way you are right but without the religious flavour. The reason is that we in Biafra have tasted the same thing those "insurgents" are facing now. From 1967-1970, we were the rebellious insurgents and the world press was reporting us as such. there are certain parallels ther so I can feel these people. Please note that I do not support or condone their activitie and their methods. But what I am telling you is that i can understand them a little, and that they are not to be counted out yet. Secondly I am saying that bush is no saint and should be given only reserved credit and praise for this turn of events. Considering that he attacked (unprovoked) a sovreign nation using trumped up excuses, there by killing in a few weeks as many iraqi civillians as it would have taken saddam decades to kill, and is now in the process of concolidating by handing over to his stooges in a rushed elections being conducted by the americans.Meanwhile the oil is flowing. If it was you, Talkandoo that had lost your home and children or wife or parents by the american mass slaoughter bombing wont you be an "insurgent" now?
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
"The reason is that we in Biafra have tasted the same thing those "insurgents" are facing now. From 1967-1970, we were the rebellious insurgents and the world press was reporting us as such. there are certain parallels ther so I can feel these people."
The Biafra case is very very different from what the terrorist insurgents are going through.
Biafrans never wanted a crazed dictator like the insurgents in Iraq wanted(Sadam) or supported one.
Biafrans wanted peace at all cost. our people were killed in thousands for no just cause. We wanted dialogue i.e Aburi, we wanted to be part of Nigeria, but the Gowon led, British supported Nigerian govt. wanted us dead. We never carried out any suicide mission, we valued life and the pursuit of happiness, the insurgent does not value life.
There is no similarity between Biafra and the insurgents at all!!!!!!!!!
Now GW, decieved the whole world and Americans in going to war against Iraq. What gales me most is the right wing xtians groups that supports this unrepentant, liar war monger.
The reason for going to war in Iraq was not democracy, but to rid Iraq of weapons of Mass destruction. Today, no one mentions that again. And righteous Bush has not apologized for lying rather, he moves from democracy to abortion all in the bid to retain power.
As a xtian, a contrite and repentant heart is what God looks at not a proud and egoistical attitude. the xtian right now want to take over Gods work. they want judges who will do Gods work! I pity them all./
GW is decieving them and making millions of dollars for himself and his cronies at the expense of young American lives and the lies he had given for going to iraq.
How come dictators like Musharaf, OBJ, the terrible man of NK are still in power? if democracy is the reason for attacking Iraq, people in NK, Pakistan, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, etc etc. are in need of democracy than Iraqis. Atleast in the whole Middle east it is only in Iraq that xtians have churches and peace during Sadam. Who is fooling who?
The insurgents are not justified, GW is not justified. Biafra was justified!
Posts: 380 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
Quit comparing yourself with bunch of bastardized satanic moslems. Biafran experience is not comparable to hoodlums with no serial numbers or organized army. To call them terrorist is no brianner.
Hail Biafra
Posts: 1684 | From: Minnesota USA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Mazi Nwa-Afor, Daluoo! You are right and Waypoint Biafra is also right that we have nothing in common with those islamic fundamentalist perverted murderers. Nothing that is with one exeption. and that is the point I was making with my statement. that exeption is that status "insurgents" which is shared by them and by Biafrans alike. Once you become active and start to take practical steps to actualise Biafra, you imidiately become an insurgent just like the iraqis we are talking about. That is the similarity and parallel I am talking about, not in our modus operandi or any other thing. if you doubt me check out these to see the similarity with iraq:
Nigerian police raid suspected militant camp PORT HARCOURT, Nigeria, May 24 (Reuters) - Police in southeastern Nigeria said on Monday they had arrested three people on suspicion of training INSURGENTS to stir trouble in oil rich Rivers state.
State police commissioner Sylvester Araba said they were arrested on Saturday following a raid on a suspected militant training camp on Bonny Island.
"No weapon was recovered from them, only Biafran flags," said Araba, adding they were part of a wider movement to "train insurgents to foment trouble in and around the state".
Nigeria's oil rich southeastern "Biafran" region fought a secessionist war from 1967 to 1970 that left over a million dead.
Araba did not say whether the suspects were connected to the Movement for the Actualisation of the Sovereign State of Biafra (MASSOB), a civil society group calling for an independent Biafran state. THE NATURE OF INSURGENCY The concessions the INSURGENTS demand, however, are usually so great that the government concedes its legitimacy along with them. Examples of this model include--
* The Mujahideen in Afghanistan prior to the Soviet withdrawal. * The Ibo revolt in Nigeria (Biafra). * The Tamil separatists in Sri Lanka.
I think these articles should be enough to make you see that there is at least one similarity between Biafrans and Nigerians, as far as the white man is concerned and that is that they are both INSURGENTS !
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
But we were never like the Mujahadeen in afghanistan, never like the Tamil Separatists in Sri Lanka. Infact Biafrans are decent, God fearing, never abused human life like the separatist or mujahadeen did.
Ours was decent cause done as a last resort!
Biafra win the war, Amourdu car, shelling Machine, heavy Artilary. Ha gaghi emeri Biafra!!!
Posts: 380 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
Ochiwar: Your statement: "You are right though when you say that I think like these people.In a certain way you are right but without the religious flavour. The reason is that we in Biafra have tasted the same thing those "insurgents" are facing now. From 1967-1970, we were the rebellious insurgents and the world press was reporting us as such. there are certain parallels ther so I can feel these people."
There is absolutely no difference between the Jihadist insurgents in Iraq and those that have been killing and mutilating NdiIgbo in the north of Nigeria since 1853. They are cut from thesame piece of Islamic cloth. The problem my brother is NOT Bush or the republicans, the problems is Islam and its rabid nature. Therefore anybody that attacks Islam in order to reform it is hero to me. They are incapable of doing the heavy lifting themselves. Bush and only Bush can do it for them.
___________________ Speak softly, but carry a big stick - Teddy Rosevelt. Posts: 18 | From: New Berlin, WI | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
That is where you are wrong Talkandoo Know your real enemy. The real enemy is not the awusa nor the muslim.They are only the errand boys. Left to the awusa alone dem no fit fight us. They could not in the ancient history of west africa and the could not in 1967 and they cannot now. We for massacer them. So think, who put them in dominance over us and who has made sure they are perpertuated in power? Who led the 1967-70 campaign for them and who supplied them arms? Who denied Biafrans the basic neccesities for life talk less of war? who labeled us Biafrans "insurgents"? It was T.blair ,G.bush and their forefathers. The same way your hero bush is dealing with those insurgents there is the same way he will be dealing with you if you venture to deprive him of his oil. I wonder how much you will realy like him then. I repeat, MAKE UNA DE WATCH DEM.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
Where was T. Blair, George Bush, and the Western powers when Usman dan Fodio led a jihad in Hausaland, established Fulani hegemony, and moved Islam deep into West Africa where it is today. The West will side with whoever controls the oil, period. In West Africa, Islam is our enemy and threatens our freedom.
___________________ The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves... Posts: 665 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
While the war in Iraq is very well related to that country`s oil reserves,any one who does not see the threat militant Islam poses to world peace needs to think again.
George Bush is doing a big favour to decent peoples` every where.Even those Europeans that oppose him now are somewhat going to benefit from his actions in the long run.These extremists brain wash and use muslims to kill so called infidels in God`s name anywhere they exist.Donot allow Your hatred for Bush to delude you into thinking the terrorists would spare your life when they plan their plots.We should always be mindful that Your enemy`s enemy is not necesarily your friend. Those non muslims living in strategic African states as Nigeria should not think that it is impossible for these terrorists to recruit,train and finance a few fanatics to unleash terror here against "infidel encroachments" in the muslim cities or states in the name of Allah.Had they not been kept extremely busy in Iraq under real threat of extinction.
posted
Et Tu Greg? Did usman dan fodio ever invade Igbo land? Where the Igbo ever conquered by the jihad? For thousands of years the answer was no. only when the likes of bush ,blair and their forefathers put their hand into the game did the awusa and muslim become a threat.
quote: The West will side with whoever controls the oil, period
Well that statement is not quite accurate because rather, the west will not rest until noone but the west controls the oil. The west will only side those whom they can control .i.e their mugus or call them stooges. That was their relationship to the awusa in our own Nigerian cotext. It is the bushes and blair we have to watch if we want to actualise Biafra. And no one should actualy underestimate the treath of militant Islam to world peace,I agree with that. But bush is doing nobody a favour by his actions. His actions are mainly selfcentered as we have established elsewhere . His actions are not going to stop militant islamism but is rather having quite the opposite effect with rates of suicide attacks rising every day and no end in sight. bush is actually engaged in a war that he cannot win and is in the process of formenting anti west/christian hatred in the whole islamic world by his indiscriminate killing of civillians and continued occupation.Bush is ending up entrenching the very islamic fundamentalism which he is fighting against.
quote: Those non muslims living in strategic African states as Nigeria should not think that it is impossible for these terrorists to recruit,train and finance a few fanatics to unleash terror here against "infidel encroachments" in the muslim cities or states in the name of Allah.
Mazi Njiko I really think that the awusas will realy restrain themselves from such course of action as it would serve them no purpose and would be counter productive to their own intrests. You see right now this religious angle is the only weak point in their relationship with the western powers. Imidiately the muslim start a religious motivated war in nigeria, the relationship will change and Biafra will become a reality. The awusa hegemony knows this and will not allow it cos they are quite content in mentaining the status quo. so dont let the western propaganda instill paranoia in you about terrorist, thereby diverting your attention from the real issues, from the real enemy. The muslims are not our best friends but neither are the likes of GWB. Like I stated above, the awusas, without the support of the west are not and have never been a threat to the Igbo. Dem no fit fight us for our land.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
quote: the awusas, without the support of the west are not and have never been a threat to the Igbo. Dem no fit fight us for our land. [/QB]
Bros, I think you are erroneously over enthusiatic about these guys good intentions and rational reasoning.While they need arms from the west to subdue the south,the collapse of the former USSR have opened a flood gate for easy acquisition of arms today.Most arms used by insurgents every where is mainly the soviet brand weapons.Conflict around west Africa would also prove to you that today,arms flow is much easier than in the 1960s when nations/groups frantically sought recognition from the west or the soviet block to guarantee arms supply.Yes,the awusas need not jeopardise the western support they had in the 60s.But the fact remains that the world has changed so much since then that the western Govts. now watch who they give arms that might be used against them tomorrow.The action of Pres. Bush so much buttress that changed ideological thinking around the world.Before now,just about 5 years ago,only poor subsaharan African immigrants were constantly denied entry visa to the west under all sorts of pretences including saying they could cause new diseases epidermics in the west! It was almost as though having a black skin was a heinous crime.Today,that ideological stereotype is gradually changing.Militant islam is now a greater concern.
African non muslims have been living under the constant threat and violence of islamic extremists for decades without any help or even sympathy from the western Govts.Incase you did not know,the hatred and massacre of Igbos by extremists that provoked the civil war largely had religious undertones.If the Igbos had all been muslims,this type of hatred towards us would not be there.Igbos are seen as a powerful obstacle towards the full islamisation of Africa.Thus,they must be uprooted and destroyed under any pretext.Only the action of Pres. Bush have sent a strong signal that the days when the western govts. merely condemed religion inspired genocide and then went to dinner was finally coming to an end.Thus like the Jews who were indirect benefactors of defeat of the Nazis,the Igbo nation would indirectly benefit from the taming of the rampant militant islam.Think for a moment that the Christians in Dafur region of sudan had been murdered and raped for decades by the Janjaweed Arab militia and their Islamic backers in Khartoum.Yet,their agony is only coming into international limelight recently because of the global effort to end terror and extremism.Wheather you like it or not,the terrorists see every Christian (including those in their own countries)to be on the side of western Govts. and would not even hesitate for one second to chop off your head if they ever capture you in Iraq or where ever they operate.Your personal approval or disapproval of GWB not withstanding. Banza!
You may be right in asserting that the Igbos would indirectly benefit from the war against terror. All action by crazed Islamic extremist in the north will be noted by the whole world. Even the action of Sharia governors in the north will be monitored. Maybe because of the oil in Southern Nigerian, the US will think twice before they support any northerner taking power in Nigeria, as dealing with the middles east has shown them that these people are not only anti west, but also, pro terrorism.
The Dafurites are muslim, they are persecuted because they are black muslim not of the arab stock and because they support a rebel group that has been a torn in the skin of the Khartoum govt. The Janjaweed were used by Khatoum to tame and annihilate the Dafurites. Only the Dinkas from the south of Sudan are Christians.
Posts: 380 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
Bros, Sorry to interupt.The black Dafur people are 90% christian.Maybe you need to recheck your facts.A Bishop from there even recently visited Naija.Again,it might also surprise you to note that Sudan has and produces oil.They infact have found more reserves recently.Therefore,it would be foolhardy to blanketly claim that Oil alone drives the national interest of the west.While oil sure has a huge impact in their decisions,it is not solely the consideration all the time despite popular beliefs.
Frata, lend me your ear. I come to bury the awusas, not to pardon them. That is my determination ad infinitum.
May I now draw your attention to this statement you made
quote:Did usman dan fodio ever invade Igbo land? Where the Igbo ever conquered by the jihad? For thousands of years the answer was no. --Ochiwar
Perhaps I misunderstand your diction here, but last time I checked Usman dan Fodio died in 1817, and he was the only one I am aware of who led a full-scale jihad in Northern Nigeria. Since when does 188 years equal a thousand? or did you learn your arithmetic from awusa census takers. Normally I would say at this point,
"falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus,"
but,
"A contrario, errare humanum est"
Mazi Ochiwar, I don't doubt that the Western powers look to their own advantage, and one can count on them to behave rationally as it regards their interests, but the Muslim mind subjects all political reason and rationality to what it thinks the "will of God" is, and this is evident in the world arena. Therefore one cannot forecast with any consistency what they will, and what they will not do. Add to this the fact that they give lip-service to international peace and justice all the while they are funding fanatical elements and terrorist organizations. In Nigeria they have instituted Sharia law in certain states as superior to constitution law. This in itself shows a disrespect for the rule of law and robs the average Muslim citizen of the protection of his civil rights under the national constitution. And do you really think they have any scruples about trampling on the rights of "infidels." If you do, I've got some beach-front property in Arizona I want to sell you.
I do agree with you on one point. If the Muslims start a religious war in Nigeria, George W. will most certainly help the Biafran(and Christian) cause. We can at least count on him to be true to that principle.
Another statement you made troubles me Ochiwar. You said...
quote:The muslims are not our best friends but neither are the likes of GWB. Like I stated above, the awusas, without the support of the west are not and have never been a threat to the Igbo. Dem no fit fight us for our land.
Which one you dey? The above seems to say that they are our friends, if not our best. Well, with friends like them, who needs enemies. Friends do not rob or cheat you. They do not massacre you as it suits their fancy. They do not occupy your land or install puppet rulers over your people. And they don't need to be fit to fight us for our land. They can just suck the blood right out of us, just like they are doing now with our oil wealth. They deserve none of it but they take all of it. But you are saying they are not our enemies. Do you really think such an argument ad absurdum can get any converts here. I don't think so. We know only too well who our real enemies are. Please re-think your position.
posted
AH, but Greg why do you choose to misinterpret my words? Nec verbum verbo curabis reddere fidus interpres! The more so since we are on the same wavelenght and obviously saying the same thing in essence? As to my first point I was merely pointing out the historical fact that the Igbo have never been conquered by the Hausa and Igboland has not been invaded by the hausa and that for a period of thousands of years even befor usman danfodio. Or does Igbo history by your reconing start with the death of usman dan fodio? please what is my error in reasoning there? or are you disputing the historical fact? As to my second statement I wish you to note that I never said or insinuated that the awusa or muslim where our friend, best or otherwise. for the record I am not a fan or friend of the hausa or muslim as should be obvious from my posts although there are no permanent friends or enemies. My statement was simply classification technique whereby I placed the muslim and GWB and co in the same group so as to drive home my point that we must be wary of both and that both are our enemies. Basicaly our standpoints are the same except that you seem to place more faith in the bushes while i am trying to point out that Latet anguis in herba. so please Credo nos in fluctu eodem esse.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
Thank you for that clarification on your position. I said that I might have misunderstood your diction, hence my speech about dan Fodio and the awusa census prestidigitators. Pardon my being in error, for to do so is indeed human. I hope the offense is now redressed.
Now, as for the Muslims never trying to come as far south as Igboland is testimony to the hot and humid climate, which they do not relish, not to mention the fact that some drive their herds there anyway during the dry season. They haven't wanted the land until oil was found there. It is true however that they could never hope to invade Igboland much less take a large village without the help of others. Even then it would not be an easy task. We are well aware that the power they hold now is due to the collaboration and support of the British military establishment and others. We haven't forgotten Harold Wilson's government and the part it played in Biafran genocide, and at the proper time there will be an appropriate response, though much delayed.
Also Ochiwar, I'll concede to you that you did not mean to imply that the awusas are our friends, though many may well glean from your statement the same meaning I did. And though your statement of political analysis uses a classification technique, without doubt useful in planning strategies, I think we are more concerned at the moment with the actual rapist than he who sells the pornography. As for George W.,
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum
(of two evils, the lesser is more acceptable...for those not versed in Latin)
quote:“We do not want, Sir, our Southern neighbours to interfere in our development.... I should like to make it clear to you that if the British quitted Nigeria now at this stage the northern people would continue their interrupted conquest to the sea.”
Mallam Abubakar Tafawa Balewa (1947)
___________________ The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves... Posts: 665 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)