But, now that Pope John Paul II is gravely ill, is it not time for the Catholic Church to do the right thing and select a Black man as Pope? We have some good cardinals from Africa any of whom would make a great Pope. What do we need to put a black face on the papacy?
Posts: 36 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2003
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This is a nice thought but unfortunately it will remain wishfull thinking. The catholic church is far too traditional and oppresive an institution to allow for a black pope. Indeed you can expect a black president of the usa before you can start thinking of a black pope.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
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The Pope is the religious/spiritual leader of The Church of Rome and the Roman Catholic Church system worldwide. He is also simultaneously the head-of-state of a sovereign country in Europe called The Vatican. This political status of the Pope is duly recognized and respected not only by the heads-of-state of other countries of Europe, but also by those of the so-called developed nations as well as the rest of the world. It has even been suggested within European circles that the Pope would eventually become the leader of the European Union.
Now, against the foregoing background, I say good luck to anyone thinking of a black Pope. I don't even think that there will ever be a Pope from outside Europe.
___________________ When I heard that those vandals, the nigerian troops, had advanced to Aba. That great Biafran city. It touched my heart; not to forget! Posts: 56 | Registered: Jun 2003
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The talkings to chusings somebodies for daddy monso to be knowings ime obodo Africa so therefore I talkings should incase we havings Nna anyi ukwu Arinze na St. Peter nugwu Rome. Who knowings and talkings that. Thank you.
___________________ Agha bu njo Posts: 58 | From: Moscow | Registered: Aug 2003
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I completely disagree with those of you who are saying that there will not be a black pope. as a devoted Catholic myself, I think the system of choosing pope is divine and will continue to be so. As a catholic I also understand that Catholic church have come along way from not a so rosy past. We now have an Igbo Man who is at the final stage of Becoming a Saint. Blessed Cyprani Iwene Tansi was beautified by current Pope. if it wasn't for his illness he probably would cannized him by now. So who ever the next Pope is will complete that.
Now coming to Black pope, Cardinal Francis Arinze is one of the few inner circle of the current pope. It has even been mentioned in some Catholic circle that he is among the top contenders. They only thing going against him right now could be his age, which may count against him, because he is in his 70s. Other than that I think HIS EMINENCE CARDINAL ARINZE have as good a chance as any of the other Cardinals.
posted
I tend to agree with Biafra that it is not impossible to have a black Pope this time around in the person of Cardinal Arinze.
Last time around the same thing was said of the current Pope John Paul II because he was from Poland he had no chance of becoming the Pope. What happened the Catholic church and the Cardinals surprised the world by electing the man from Poland as the Pope.
This Pope turned out to be the best Pope ever to lead the Catholic church and will go down in history as the BEST POPE in the history of Popes in the catholic church.
So there is a chance for a Black Pope even though the chance is slim.
___________________ BIAFRA MUST RISE AGAIN. LONG LIVE BIAFRA!! Posts: 1080 | From: California, USA. | Registered: Oct 2002
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Guys the chance may not as slim as people would like to believe, Remember that Arinze is almost a clone of John Paul 11 in conservative Theology.
quote:
No Clear Front-Runner to Succeed Pope
15 minutes ago Europe - AP
By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer
VATICAN CITY - The intense guessing game over who will be the next pope has only one certainty: the cardinals must decide whether to follow John Paul II with another non-Italian or hand the papacy back to its traditional caretakers.
AP Photo
The Polish-born John Paul was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years and brought a new vitality to the Vatican, challenging parochial attitudes throughout the church. One view holds that the papal electors will want to maintain the spirit by recognizing the Roman Catholic centers of gravity outside Europe in Latin America and Africa.
Another theory suggests that the Italians will press to reclaim the papacy after John Paul's 26-year reign — the third-longest in history.
There is no clear favorite when the 117 cardinals begin their secret conclave later this month.
But names often mentioned as "papabile" — the Italian word for possible papal candidates — include Cardinal Francis Arinze, a Vatican-based Nigerian, and Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes.
Arinze, 72, converted to Roman Catholicism as a child and shares some of John Paul's conservative views on contraception and family issues. But he brings a unique element: representing a nation shared between Muslims and Christians at the time when interfaith relations assume growing urgency. If elected, he would be the first black pope of modern times.
Hummes, 70, is archbishop of Sao Paolo, Brazil, and urges more attention to fighting poverty and the effects of a globalized economies. His supporters note that Brazil's role as a Latin American political and economic heavyweight could help the Vatican counter the popularity of emerging evangelical churches in the region.
Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodiguez Maradiaga of Honduras, the 62-year-old archbishop of Tegucigalpa, is also mentioned as a possible candidate. But he could be too much of a break for Vatican conservatives. He has studied clinical psychology and has a dynamic, outspoken style.
Among Italians, Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, the archbishop of Milan, is a moderate with natural pastoral abilities and an easy style that appeals to the young. But Tettamanzi, 71, is not considered widely traveled and some critics believe he could impose too strong an Italian outlook.
Other Italians widely mentioned as possible candidates include: Cardinal Angelo Scola of Venice, 63, who is relatively young and brings a cosmopolitan flair from his city, a historic cultural crossroads; and Giovanni Battista Re, 71, who has served as president of the Vatican commission for Latin America since 2001.
Within Europe, several cardinals are seen as possible rising stars, potentially able to win support in the way Karol Wojtyla, then archbishop of Krakow, Poland, did in the 1978 conclave that elevated him to pope. They include: Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, the 69-year-old archbishop of Vienna, Austria, who is multilingual and has diplomatic flair, and Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels, 71, who is well known in political and diplomatic circles.
John Paul's papacy was so long, some Vatican watchers suggest the conclave could look to an older "transitional" pope, who would not try to put a strong personal stamp on the papacy.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a German who heads the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is the leading name under this scenario. Ratzinger, who will turn 78 before the conclave, was a close confidant of the late pope and is favored by those who want to preserve John Paul's conservative views.
Europe has the biggest bloc with 58 papal electors — cardinals under 80 years old. Italy alone has 20.
Latin America has 21 and Africa brings 11. The United States also has 11 cardinals and could sway the voting if they remain united. An American pope, however, is considered a virtual impossibility because of the Vatican would avoid any such a deep and complicated association with the world's sole superpower.
Any other forecast would find itself on shaky ground.
One only has to recall that after two days and eight rounds of voting 26 years ago, the name of Karol Wojtyla — never mentioned as a serious candidate — was announced to the crowd in St. Peter's Square. Many there were baffled.
quote:
So you see Arinze's chance is as good as other Cardinals.
posted
It seems as if some of you have not realy known what catholic church is all about. You think Arinze and other third world candidates have a fair and equal chance to become pope. This is obviously not so. I do not now want to go into a history of the catholic churchs racist and white supremacy stand but as Biafra rightly pointed out in his post
quote: Europe has the biggest bloc with 58 papal electors — cardinals under 80 years old. Italy alone has 20.
Latin America has 21 and Africa brings 11. The United States also has 11 cardinals and could sway the voting if they remain united.
Latin america and Africa with 32 votes is still far off from europes 58. How do you account for the fact that an area that produces less than 20% of the worlds catholics produces more than 60% percent of elegible voters while the areas producing more than 60% of catholics have about 20% of the eligible voters. Does that realy seem like giving them a fair chance? Or is this not rather analogous to the Biafra/Awusa situation we have here ?
Ok I forgot. It is the holy spirit that will come into the enclave and ensure fair play and equity and give the underdog a chance. i.e they are using the holy spirit now to do the dirty job of INEC. Well personaly I am a practising catholic also, but sometimes I cant help asking myself when , at what point in time did the holy spirit start coming into the enclave? Was he there when the Borja pope was elected (pope alexander VI) or when clement V, clement VI and clement VII where elected? or more recently were was the holy spirit when pope pius XII was elected pope that worked hand in hand with Hitler to send jews to the concentration camps. Or when the popes that stood by to aid and condone human slavery for hundreds of years where elected? The Holy Spirit that I know was not there at all. So I vehemently disagree with those who claim Arinze and co have as good a chance as others. I agree that he or a latin american cardinal have a slim chance, so slim however that it becomes insignificant.
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
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If Francis Cardinal Arinze does become the Pope, I hope he does for Igbo people and for Biafrans what Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła (Pope Paul II) did for Poland.
Pope Arinze (John, Paul, Pius, Gregory, I, II, III, IV, ... or whatever) should be prepared to travel to BiafraNigeria, defy the dictators in Abuja, and tell the leaders of the Biafra Movement in BLM and MASSOB to "have no fear." That is what Pope John Paul II did when he traveled to Poland in 1979, less than a year after he became Pope. John Paul II told the leaders and followers of Lech walesa and his Solidarity Movement to "HAVE NO FEAR." John Paul II visited Poland so many times, compelling General Jeruzelski, then leader of Poland, to allow rallies not sanctioned by the communist regime in Warsaw. A few years later, Poland was freed from the clutches of the Soviet Empire.
If Cardinal Arinze does become Pope and he fails to do for Biafra what Cardinal Wojtyła did for Poland, we are going to make sure that Cardinal Arinze goes down as an Igbo Efulefu.
___________________ No Biafran will be permitted to play Mother Theresa to the Yoruba and Hausa-Fulani, but play Osama Bin Laden to the Igbo or Biafrans! Posts: 1182 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Damian: Pope Arinze (John, Paul, Pius, Gregory, I, II, III, IV, ... or whatever) should be prepared to travel to BiafraNigeria, defy the dictators in Abuja, and tell the leaders of the Biafra Movement in BLM and MASSOB to "have no fear."
There is a saying(literally translated) that an orphan learns when listening to an advice given to king's children. We have always known, those who don't might learn from the above, that umu Igbo should be fearless. This is why the non-violent attitude adopted by some Biafran organisations would better be changed to match real situations.
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:That is what Pope John Paul II did when he traveled to Poland in 1979, less than a year after he became Pope. John Paul II told the leaders and followers of Lech walesa and his Solidarity Movement to "HAVE NO FEAR." John Paul II visited Poland so many times, compelling General Jeruzelski, then leader of Poland, to allow rallies not sanctioned by the communist regime in Warsaw. A few years later, Poland was freed from the clutches of the Soviet Empire~~~Damian
That is exactly the reason why I say that Pope John Paul II will go down in history as the greatest leader of the catholic church.
Speaking as a non-Catholic this Pope had Charisma, speaks the truth, he told the dictators all over the world what they did not want to hear without fear.
Damian is absolutetly correct, if Cardinal Arinze if he becomes the next Pope fails do for BIAFRA what Pope John Paul II did for Poland, he will be an Igbo Efulelfu in my book.
___________________ BIAFRA MUST RISE AGAIN. LONG LIVE BIAFRA!! Posts: 1080 | From: California, USA. | Registered: Oct 2002
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My view remains that we cannot afford, not only to count on imported religious groups to appoint one of our own a pope to increase the brainwashing of our people/black race, but at the same time expect the appointee to solve all our problems. Suppose that Arinze is not appointed pope. What would Ndi-Igbo do? Wait until the day it happens or take their destiny into their hands?
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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The holy father has gone home to the Lord. May his soul rest in perfect peace. I hope the world will find another Pope like Pope John Paul 11, a man who fought against injustice and also fought for the oppressed and the weak.
We are yet to see anyone who can step into the big shoe this Pope left behind.It is premature at this point for anyone to suggest a black Pope. Look at Africa and nigeria in particular. Where are the head of churches, and the catholic cardinals from Africa? They all remained silent while atrocities, terrible injustice and corruption continue in Nigeria and Africa,No Nigeian church leadership has raised a voice against all the evil going on in Nigeria.
Pope John paul 11 fought hard to end communism and oppression in eastern Europe. Black African leaders can not manage themselves and their citizens, and we are here suggesting a black Pope to be incharge of the world's catholic body. How many cardinals or church leaders from Africa has voiced against the injustice, oppression, and corruption in Africa. It doesn't make sense to advocate for a black Pope at this time until African leadership begin to make sense, especialy the clergy and the politicians. I can't see any black person capable of holding the papal office yet.
Posts: 524 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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I disagree with both of you on Arinze, I was in the audience throughout Cardinal Arinze's visit to Los Angeles two years ago. Before his Visit many in the Los Angeles Catholic Igbo Community had a big disagreement with many of us Biafran Advocates. They said we should not bring Biafra issues into Arinze's welcome address, that since Cardinal Arinze is considered one of the International figure that it may be controversial.
Many of those percifists Efulefu's ate Crows when Arinze started his speech and Gospel and didn't mince words on the Role both Holy see and catholic charities like Caritas played during the war and Biafra survival. How the first group send by pope Paul was turned back in Lagos, determined to make it to Biafra, they went back and devised a new route to make it to Biafra. After that, that was when Caritas relieve started flowing into Biafra. Arinze talked about how parents named their children Caritas during the war. He talked about people who seek refuge and diocese office in Onitsha. Arinze went into length speech on Biafran war. May be for some of you who didn't experience that war, this may sound Greek to you all. But for some of us who were children during the war, what Arinze said about Holy see and Caritas resonate with us. Many of us would have not survived that war without Caritas.
From everything I saw of Arinze from his visit here to Los Angeles, the man cannot be called efulefu by any means. When he came here, with many California politicians presents he didn't shy away from tackling social issues and abortion in his sermon. Needless to say many of us were delighted, when Arinze made those Igbo Efulefu here in Los Angeles who didn't want to put Biafra anywhere near his welcome address eat their words. If he can do that as a Cardinal, I doubt seriously if he will change if he becomes Pope. Moreover Remember that he was in Onitsha Diocese during the war, he experienced it first hand. I would even say that his life experience mirrors that of pope John Paul 2.
I agree intoto with all you said. I do not know Cardinal Arinze personally, but from all i have read about him, he sure is worthy to be the next Pope.
As a beneficiary of Caritas humanitarian activities during the war, I stand bold to say that today i give to United Way/ RedCross. Also, i was born Catholic and later in life embraced Penticostal way of worship, but have always believed that the Catholic Church is very relevant in todays evangelistic mission. For that reason, i was wedded in the Catholic Church.
I wonder where many of us will be without the cornmeal provided by Caritas during the war.
Cardinal Arinze will make fit perfectly into the large shoe of Pope John Paul 11
Posts: 380 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2004
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I can safely said that I am alive today and never suffered kwasioka because of Caritas, and many other agencies like Red cross. You mentioned cornmeal, Milk, garri Gabon, Salt stockfish, all this were made possible by Caritas.
My view remains that we cannot afford, not only to count on imported religious groups to appoint one of our own a pope to increase the brainwashing of our people/black race, but at the same time expect the appointee to solve all our problems.
A very saliet point, indeed. For once in this fora, even though I have disagreed with you in many occasions, the truth is clear from your point of view when you acknowledge a black pope in the person of Francis Cardinal Arinze would change nothing in solving a pervasive African problem. And based on the College of Cardinals who should be electing a new pope, Arinze remains a midget and has no chance of becoming the next Pope Pius X111 or Pope John Paul III. It is the simple truth.
By the way, where have you been and how's your love life with Ukaobasi? Nevertheless, it's good to read from you.
My name is Mota Ogallala Tekumseh, the proud native American.
___________________ The greatest thing about America is the right to disagree with the power structure without fear of torture or death at the hands of the government Posts: 217 | From: Ogallala, Nebraska, USA | Registered: May 2003
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I wonder where many of us will be without the cornmeal provided by Caritas during the war.
Of course those organisations did a great job in Biafra, but there were still many who survived without them. Instead of delving in the past, let us focus on the future. Let us prepare ourselves strategically, physically and mentally so that we would be able to survive in the future, no matter the situation.
There is a problem or ather a danger: we should not lay all our hopes on one man. Doing so does not seem real. It could be dangerous. Mind you that John Paul II survived a terrorist attack. It is just an example. So, we would better prepare ourselves in such a way that many Biafrans would become all future Pope Arinzes. This means that if one pope doesn't do the job, then another would. In fact we should all be "Popes".
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I don't know what it is you are disagreeing with. Could you point it out?
Here is the bottomline. Within a few weeks, the Cardinals of the Catholic Church will be locked away in the Michelangelo decorated Sistine Chapel to elect the next Bishop of Rome who therefore becomes the Supreme Pontiff of the one-billion strong Catholic Church. It is highly unlikely, but possible, that when the white smoke rises from the Sistine chapel to signify the election of a new Pope, the man who emerges could be our very own Francis Arinze.
It is no longer a secret that the Pope is the most powerful man on earth who does not need to command an army to wield the power he does. Hence, my point is very simple.
If Karol Józef Wojtyła could do it for Poland and against the Soviet Empire, Francis Arinze should be able to do it for Biafrans and against the Islamist Talibans who pull the strings in BiafraNigeria.
As you know, I was fully engaged in the coverage of Cardinal Arinze's pastoral pastoral visit to California a few years ago. I do however think that the Cardinal's references to the activities of Caritas and other charities that operated in Biafra have only anecdotal value in showing what the cardinal might do in the event that he does become Pope.
I agree with you that there are too many ill-informed Igbo persons who, in their abject ignorance, believe that every Igbo person who is accomplished should shy away from Biafra or pro-Biafra activities. They were the ones who tried to eliminate any references to Biafra during Cardinal Arinze's visit. You will be amazed how even some rather inconsequential twits of Igbo extraction have claimed that they are unable to openly support Biafra because such support would in some way adversely affect their "professional" careers. I laugh each time I encounter such charlatans, especially when they live here in the USA or in Europe.
___________________ No Biafran will be permitted to play Mother Theresa to the Yoruba and Hausa-Fulani, but play Osama Bin Laden to the Igbo or Biafrans! Posts: 1182 | Registered: Mar 2001
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I am very surprised that you have not been unsubscribed by the moderator of BNW. The first thing I remember about you, even though I have forgotten why, is that many people wanted you out. The second is that you have never made any responsible contribution in any thread on this board. I don't remember reading any thread started by you either. How long is all that going to last?
___________________ 1) Everything you can imagine is real->Picasso
2) They taught you the praises of their God, and these hosannas, when tuned into your sorrows, gave you the hope of a better world to come-->Patrice Lumumba Posts: 379 | Registered: Apr 2003
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___________________ The greatest thing about America is the right to disagree with the power structure without fear of torture or death at the hands of the government Posts: 217 | From: Ogallala, Nebraska, USA | Registered: May 2003
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My disagreement is that Arinze will not shy away from using his bully puppet to speakout against injustice against Biafrans. However remember that People like Leck welsa were unfraid once they
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