posted
For those advocating for a war to actualize Biafra please look at the history for internal conflicts in Africa.
1.”The Burundi Civil War is driven by ethnic rivalries between Hutu and Tutsi tribal factions of Burundi. Rivalry escalated into a bloody power struggle following the presidential election of June 1993. The country has been in a state of war since then.”
2.”Following the end of Portuguese colonial rule in April 1974, newly-independent Angola descended into a devastating civil war which became Africa's longest running conflict. Formally brought to an end in 2002, an estimated 500,000 people were killed and tens of thousands more were displaced during the 27-year civil war.”
“In 2002, Savimbi was killed in a military operation, and UNITA and the MPLA agreed to sign a cease-fire six weeks later, on April 4. In August 2002, UNITA declared itself a political party and officially demobilized its armed force, ending the civil war. Angola is currently at a fragile peace under the leadership of the MPLA and dos Santos”
3.”The Civil war in Côte d'Ivoire began on September 19, 2002, and restarted in November 2004.”
4. “The Second Sudanese Civil War started in 1983, although it is most accurately a continuation of the First Sudanese Civil War of 1955 to 1972. It took place, for the most part, in southern Sudan and was one of the longest lasting and deadliest wars of the latter 20th century. Roughly 1.9 million civilians were killed in southern Sudan, and more than 4 million have been forced to flee their homes at one time or another since the war began. The civilian death toll is one of the highest of any war since 1945 [1]. The conflict ended upon the signing of a peace agreement in January 2005”.
5.”The Second Liberian Civil War began in 1999 when a rebel group backed by the government of neighboring Guinea, the Liberians United for Reconciliation and Democracy (LURD), emerged in northern Liberia. In early 2003, a second rebel group, the Movement for Democracy in Liberia, emerged in the south, and by the summer of 2003, Charles Taylor's government controlled only a third of the country. The capital Monrovia was besieged by LURD, and that group's shelling of the city resulted in the deaths of many civilians. Thousands of people were displaced from their homes as a result of the conflict."
Courtesy of Wikipedia.
From what we can see from the history of wars in Africa there has been no internal war in Africa where an ethnic group has successfully in seceding from another country. Another Biafran War will not be different.
Are you sure that you are not a war monger? You have been accusing people of calling for a "second Biafran war." Yet, when the time came for you to argue against the so-called proponents of the war, you went and opened a new topic about a "second Biafran war." It seems to me that you have started a debate against yourself.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Obodo5000: For those advocating for a war to actualize Biafra please look at the history for internal conflicts in Africa.
1.”The Burundi Civil War is driven by ethnic rivalries between Hutu and Tutsi tribal factions of Burundi. Rivalry escalated into a bloody power struggle following the presidential election of June 1993. The country has been in a state of war since then.”
2.”Following the end of Portuguese colonial rule in April 1974, newly-independent Angola descended into a devastating civil war which became Africa's longest running conflict. Formally brought to an end in 2002, an estimated 500,000 people were killed and tens of thousands more were displaced during the 27-year civil war.”
“In 2002, Savimbi was killed in a military operation, and UNITA and the MPLA agreed to sign a cease-fire six weeks later, on April 4. In August 2002, UNITA declared itself a political party and officially demobilized its armed force, ending the civil war. Angola is currently at a fragile peace under the leadership of the MPLA and dos Santos”
3.”The Civil war in Côte d'Ivoire began on September 19, 2002, and restarted in November 2004.”
4. “The Second Sudanese Civil War started in 1983, although it is most accurately a continuation of the First Sudanese Civil War of 1955 to 1972. It took place, for the most part, in southern Sudan and was one of the longest lasting and deadliest wars of the latter 20th century. Roughly 1.9 million civilians were killed in southern Sudan, and more than 4 million have been forced to flee their homes at one time or another since the war began. The civilian death toll is one of the highest of any war since 1945 [1]. The conflict ended upon the signing of a peace agreement in January 2005”.
5.”The Second Liberian Civil War began in 1999 when a rebel group backed by the government of neighboring Guinea, the Liberians United for Reconciliation and Democracy (LURD), emerged in northern Liberia. In early 2003, a second rebel group, the Movement for Democracy in Liberia, emerged in the south, and by the summer of 2003, Charles Taylor's government controlled only a third of the country. The capital Monrovia was besieged by LURD, and that group's shelling of the city resulted in the deaths of many civilians. Thousands of people were displaced from their homes as a result of the conflict."
Courtesy of Wikipedia.
From what we can see from the history of wars in Africa there has been no internal war in Africa where an ethnic group has successfully in seceding from another country. Another Biafran War will not be different.
Hence my stance of PEACE,the ROOT to the problem goes back long before the Biafran war,it stems from colonial times when the division of land was unfairly and ignorantly chopped up,as in america ,australia,palestine,germany and others.once devided,these contries have all had long ongoing problems,which in some cases are unsolvable,without more death and destruction.in other cases,the international courts have helped,as with the native american indians and the aborigionies of australia.in the case of Igboland,to get it to the point of international acceptance as Biafra,were the nigerian goverment can do nothing about it,without attracting heavy penalties,the leaders of the Igbo people should START proceedings against the nigerian government and the british goverments in the international courts of human rights on behalf of the igbo people,asking for restitution of the land of thier forefathers,and substansial compensation,for the injustice and suffering inflicted upon them.the compensatin to be used to bring the new nation of Biafra into the 21st century ,with schools,hospitals and other such infrastructures.once this is done and WON,the oil and coal on the lands of the Igbo people will be thier own,and will attract protection as in kuwait.the case is totally winable,and the top lawyers of Igboland,living at home or abroad should assist freely to make this end in a real Biafra.If this case were won in such a manner,the nigerian government would Have to accept it or face the penalty for contempt of court.this would also leave the decision making on this matter out of thier hands.what is needed for such an action is the will and conviction of principles of the Igbo people.most importantly a win would sidestep DEATH AND DESTRUCTION,giving the children of Biafra the chance to grow and BUILD A NATION.the peaceful conclusion showing there are other ways to achive goals.LONGLIVEBIAFRA.haveaniceday
___________________ WORLD PEACE 4 ALL Posts: 77 | From: the netherlands | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I wonder why people seem to think that I and everyone of my opinion wants war. I do not want war. I want Igbo people to be happy and prosperous. I want them to be free to travel to any part of their own land without fear of being murdered just for being Igbo. I want the national honor of the people and nation restored. I want to hear the laughter of children in the streets and by-ways of the villages. I want oppressive forces and all vestiges of their suzerainity removed from the life and society of the people. I want schools, hospitals, and the delivery of services that the West takes for granted. I want Igboland to rise to its place among nations, and no more be held down by design and the dead weight extortion and theft. I want Igbo leaders to be loyal to the Igbo people instead of their oppressors. If this can be achieved by courts and laws, I'm all for it, but to depend on that is to live in a dream world. Even if such a thing were to happen, would Biafra decide not to create an army, navy, and air force, and just depend on the international courts to protect its borders and national security. Not likely. And if this line of thinking is valid and dependable, why don't all other nations get rid of their armed forces, since the courts will protect them from their enemies and any conflicts that arise between nations? Why? because even though the intent of the international courts and laws may be just, it is political suicide and utter folly to depend solely upon them as the source of a nation's right to exist. And what if they rule against you? What then? Do you accept oppression and second-class citizenship because of a word from strangers 5000 km away? Courts can be biased, even international ones.
Patrick, though your idea of how justice for Igbo people can be achieved may leave something to be desired, politically speaking, at least you call for Biafra, whereas some are comfortable with the weight of their cotton sack, and would rather stay on the plantation, and try and persuade others to do the same, painting a nightmarish picture of freedom and life outside the plantation walls. These, when confronted with factual rejoinder, cannot respond with same, but begin to make accusations, which, whether by design or not, obfuscate the issues, and obliterate good debate. It would be good to hear a reasoned response to the objections I and those of my opinion have, without persons descending into rank contumely,or if that is not possible, at least add some good reasoning about the issues along with their contumely.
___________________ The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves... Posts: 660 | From: Valle del Sol | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Greg: I wonder why people seem to think that I and everyone of my opinion wants war. I do not want war. I want Igbo people to be happy and prosperous. I want them to be free to travel to any part of their own land without fear of being murdered just for being Igbo. I want the national honor of the people and nation restored. I want to hear the laughter of children in the streets and by-ways of the villages. I want oppressive forces and all vestiges of their suzerainity removed from the life and society of the people. I want schools, hospitals, and the delivery of services that the West takes for granted. I want Igboland to rise to its place among nations, and no more be held down by design and the dead weight extortion and theft. I want Igbo leaders to be loyal to the Igbo people instead of their oppressors. If this can be achieved by courts and laws, I'm all for it, but to depend on that is to live in a dream world. Even if such a thing were to happen, would Biafra decide not to create an army, navy, and air force, and just depend on the international courts to protect its borders and national security. Not likely. And if this line of thinking is valid and dependable, why don't all other nations get rid of their armed forces, since the courts will protect them from their enemies and any conflicts that arise between nations? Why? because even though the intent of the international courts and laws may be just, it is political suicide and utter folly to depend solely upon them as the source of a nation's right to exist. And what if they rule against you? What then? Do you accept oppression and second-class citizenship because of a word from strangers 5000 km away? Courts can be biased, even international ones.
Patrick, though your idea of how justice for Igbo people can be achieved may leave something to be desired, politically speaking, at least you call for Biafra, whereas some are comfortable with the weight of their cotton sack, and would rather stay on the plantation, and try and persuade others to do the same, painting a nightmarish picture of freedom and life outside the plantation walls. These, when confronted with factual rejoinder, cannot respond with same, but begin to make accusations, which, whether by design or not, obfuscate the issues, and obliterate good debate. It would be good to hear a reasoned response to the objections I and those of my opinion have, without persons descending into rank contumely,or if that is not possible, at least add some good reasoning about the issues along with their contumely.
There is an ancient Roman maxim that states:
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
or
He who desires peace should prepare for war.
This is my belief as well.
hello greg,again i am on youre side for youre point of view and im glad you expressed it this way.i did say in my other posting to you that i do agree with national security for Biafra,as you described,as it certainly is nessecary to any nation.the point of if Biafra,would defend itself once established is a simple yes,air force navy etc,ect,as again you were correct in saying nations need these things.we are on the same side in this debate,and i am sure you have good reasons for youre opinion,as i do.by thrashing them out openly amongst oureselves,we can all learn new things,and hopefully conclude with a free,strong,prosperous and fair Biafra.more importantly,as this is the internet i hope what we think is picked up on worldwide.Just to make it clear to those who arent Igbo, or nigerian,WE WANT A FREE BIAFRAN NATION.(and i want it peacefully).
quote:...as this is the internet i hope what we think is picked up on worldwide.Just to make it clear to those who arent Igbo, or nigerian,WE WANT A FREE BIAFRAN NATION.(and i want it peacefully). --Patrick
Don't worry Patrick, it is being "picked up" worldwide. That is why our position and logic as it concerns Biafra and Igbo affairs must be completely clear, persuasive, and without reproach. You are, at this very moment, in a cyber-courtroom of international opinion.
___________________ The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves... Posts: 660 | From: Valle del Sol | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I hate to do this I think this Obodo5000 or whatever he calls himself is an idiot. Who is calling for war to actualize Biafra. He started this Thread with any information to backup his claim.
quote: From what we can see from the history of wars in Africa there has been no internal war in Africa where an ethnic group has successfully in seceding from another country.--Obodo5000
That history is suspect. What about Eritrea seceeding from Ethiopia? how about somalia seceeding from Ethiopea. What about black south Africa seceeding from white apartheid south africa? Are those ones not in wikipedia?
___________________ Biafra is inevitable.Illegitimis nil carborundum. Posts: 760 | From: europe | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
ofeke, amalo mgbe ekele ukwa. It seem that some biafran never know, there is war now. Obasanjo had never end his biafran war, but we think there is no war. Go to our sea ports, there you see anoher war, our Roads, Schools,etc. so dont put us in fear of that. war may be the only way out of this.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Below is the history of the so called succesfull seceesion of African countries like Eritrea and Somalia courtesy of Wikipedia.
"The war of Eritrean Independence would escalate considerably after the overthrow of the Ethiopian monarchy in 1974, when a hardline Marxist military junta known as the Derg seized power, and launched a major offensive in Eritrea.
The liberation struggle was dominated by two movements, the Eritrean Liberation Front (ELF), often refered to as "Jebha", and by the Eritrean Peoples Liberation Front (EPLF), often known as "Shabia". The ELF was dominated by Muslim lowlanders, and was a conservative grass roots movement, where as the EPLF was dominated by Christian highlanders, and had a Marxist-Leninist philosophy. The ELF received backing from the more conservative Arab governments, whereas the EPLF from the more leftist ones, and some Eastern bloc countries which abandoned it in favor of the Derg regime in Ethiopia upon the Ethiopian revolution. The ELF and EPLF made attempts to consolidate their operations, but soon found that they could not work together. The ELF was eventually overshadowed and eliminated by the EPLF.
This war ended in 1991, when joint Eritrean and rebellious Ethiopian forces defeated the Ethiopian army, and the Derg regime fell. Two years later, after a referendum with the blessing of the new Ethiopian government, Eritrean independence was declared. The leader of the EPLF, Isaias Afewerki became Eritrea's first President. The Eritrean Peoples Liberation front (EPLF or Shabia), bacame the sole legal ruling party, and changed its name to the People's Front for Democracy and Justice (PFDJ).
In 1998, a border war with Ethiopia broke out which killed thousands of soldiers from both countries and left Eritrea with significant economic and social stresses, including massive population displacement, reduced economic development, and one of Africa's more severe landmine problems. In spite of initially promising economic and political strides, the government cracked down on the free press and on opposition in 1998 when questions about the conduct of the war were raised, as well as the failure of the government to implement the new Constitution and hold long promised elections. Later, the government of Eritrea banned the practice of all religions other than the Eritrean Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Eritrean Mekane Yesus Evangelical Lutheran Church, and Islam. All other sects in general, and fundamentalist Evangelical Protestant Christians in particularly, were suppressed across the country.
The Eritrean-Ethiopian War ended in 2000 with a negotiated agreement known as the Algiers Agreement. One of the terms of the agreement was the establishment of a UN peacekeeping operation, known as the United Nations Mission in Eritrea and Ethiopia (UNMEE); over 4,000 UN peacekeepers remain as of August 2004. Another term of the Algiers Agreement was the establishment of a final demarcation of the disputed border area between Eritrea and Ethiopia. An independent, UN-associated boundary commission known as the Ethiopian-Eritrean Boundary Commission (EEBC), after extensive study, issued a final border ruling in 2003, but its decision was rejected by Ethiopia. As of June 2005 the border question remains in dispute, even while a tentative and tense peace remains in"
"Intermittent civil war has been a fact of life in Somalia since 1977. In 1991, the northern portion of the country declared its independence as Somaliland; although de facto independent and relatively stable compared to the tumultuous south, it has not been recognized by any foreign government.
Beginning in 1993, a two-year UN humanitarian effort (primarily in the south) was able to alleviate famine conditions, but when the UN withdrew in Operation United Shield by March 3, 1995, having suffered significant casualties, order had still not been restored.
Yet another secession from Somalia took place in the northeastern region. The self-proclaimed state took the name Puntland after declaring "temporary" independence in 1998, with the intention that it would participate in any Somali reconciliation to form a new central government.
A third secession occurred in 1998 with the declaration of the state of Jubaland. The territory of Jubaland is now encompassed by the state of Southwestern Somalia and its status is unclear.
A fourth self-proclaimed entity led by the Rahanweyn Resistance Army (RRA) was set up in 1999, along the lines of the Puntland. That "temporary" secession was reasserted in 2002. This led to the autonomy of Southwestern Somalia. The RRA had originally set up an autonomous administration over the Bay and Bakool regions of south and central Somalia in 1999.
Somalia was one of the many countries devastated by the tsunami which struck the Indian Ocean coast following the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, destroying entire villages and killing an estimated 300 people.
On October 2004, a Transitional Federal Government, led by President Abdullahi Yusuf (leader of Puntland) and Prime Minister Ali Muhammad Ghedi, was elected in Nairobi, Kenya after a period of two years of negotiations sponsored by the international community and hosted by the regional authority on peace and development, IGAD, which comprises Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti, Uganda, Eritrea and Sudan. The government, which includes several leading warlords, remains in exile in Kenya."
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